Marinefrontspange

[Oscar]

Hello all,

What's Your thoughts on this marinefrontspange? I know that its very hard award. Any similar pattern examples with provenance?

Thank You for all opinions.

[Ludwig]

Mostly very hard to tell, as all were handmade. I like the look of this one though.

[Oscar]

Thank You Ludwig for Your input. Personally I like the look of this one too - this is the reason that I posted it here before buying.

Can anybody else confirm our feelings? Any similar examples around?

[AndyC]

IMO it have a chance to be good but it is always difficult about marinen frontspangen



Andy

[Martin W]

The badge does look very similar from the obverse design to the ones produced on or for the "Prinz Eugen".

Regards,Martin.

[monty]

Clasp & Document

I have decided to post this info which William Ringler graciously shared with me back in 2003 when he bought the pictured document and clasp from me on Ebay.

I had obtained the 2 items directly from a private source in Germany, a person who at that time was a long time collector who obtained most of his items from Kriegsmarine Veteran Associations. . I believe William is now deceased so I cannot ask his permission to post this. Here goes:


In mid-April, 1945 (Hitler was dead), the "Prinz Eugen" went on a rescue
mission to Danzig Harbor and was intent upon rescuing as many of the
retreating Army and Waffen SS troops as possible.

Thiele formed what was called the "Armeegruppe Thiele" and 360+ "Prinz
Eugen" sailors volunteered for this rescue mission (12 were killed by
Russian artillery during the rescue).
The group succeeded in saving almost 1,000 German soldiers.

The Nazi High Command had authorized the award (and design) of this
achievement 2 years previously, BUT IT WAS SO LATE IN THE WAR THAT THE
PIECE HAD NEVER BEEN MADE!!!

When Thiele returned to the "Prinz Eugen" he ordered that the awards be
produced FOR PRESENTATION ONLY TO THE MEN OF "ARMEEGRUPPE THIELE" and
they were made by hand in the machine shop of "Prinz Eugen." By the way,
these particular ORIGINAL awards were made ONLY on the "Prinz Eugen" and
nowhere else!!

The document was typed on Thiele's own typewriter and the stamp was made
in the repair shop of “Prinz Eugen" and presented to the survivors of "Armeegruppe Thiele."

The correct clasp is EXACTLY what I am buying from you - rough
and basically raw and unfinished.

I have 2 of these badges (and 2 Thiele presentation awards) and both are 100% certain; 1 is from 1 of the prize crew of "Prinz Eugen" and the 2nd. Is from a daughter of the original owner whom I met in Schorndorff during 1 of my many, many business trips to Germany.

As far as the "Thiele" document and badge goes - from 20+ years of research on this matter THEY WERE ONLY MADE ON THE "PRINZ EUGEN" AND ONLY BETWEEN APRIL 11, 1945 AND APRIL 15, 1945; the total was about 360.

[monty]

Document

Document

[Martin W]

Great information with the award and document Monty.

Regards,Martin.

[Norm F]

When Thiele returned to the "Prinz Eugen" he ordered that the awards be
produced FOR PRESENTATION ONLY TO THE MEN OF "ARMEEGRUPPE THIELE" and
they were made by hand in the machine shop of "Prinz Eugen." By the way,
these particular ORIGINAL awards were made ONLY on the "Prinz Eugen" and
nowhere else!!
...
As far as the "Thiele" document and badge goes - from 20+ years of research on this matter THEY WERE ONLY MADE ON THE "PRINZ EUGEN" AND ONLY BETWEEN APRIL 11, 1945 AND APRIL 15, 1945; the total was about 360.

Very interesting information, but I'm wondering about this statement of exclusivity to Prinz Eugen? Rightly or wrongly, this type of hand-made Marine-Frontspange has appeared also in several groupings that were not from Prinz Eugen vets.

For example this one from the late Don Frailey's collection and published by Angolia (previously posted by Martin W).

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

and this one too, previously posted here, with no Prinz Eugen connection.

[Norm F]

I notice that the two examples from the Prinz Eugen grouping that Martin had posted both have a black pigment applied to the background of the obverse design, similar to the one shown by monty. I wonder if this was a feature unique to the Prinz Eugen examples?

[Norm F]

The whole grouping (from Martin's files but he wasn't sure where it came from originally).

Edit: The grouping was originally posted here in 2011: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=515779

[Norm F]

Direct comparisons highlight the dilemma with these badges. When you compare the one from the Tscharnke grouping to Oscar's unattributed example from the opening post, for something this crude and variable how can you tell the difference between a 1945-made badge and something made in someone's garage yesterday? Only with some pretty darn good provenance...

Best regards,
---Norm

[Oscar]

Thanks to all for your comments and opinions. Its been truly appreciated.

[NOR_collector]

I have seen document (urkunde) groups from zerstörer, HSF and S-boot etc. where marine frontspange has been awarded in 1945. It was not just given to the soldiers that was on Prinze Eugen.

Regards,
André