Destroyer War Badge for review

[ancientrelicsuk]

Hi Guys,

I have a bad feeling about this badge bought a couple of years ago. I cannot find a parallel and the pointed top hook seems unusual/bad to me. I would really be grateful for opinions on this, although I think the front looks reasonable.

Many thanks for looking and for all comments.

Best regards,

Guy

[Norm F]

Hi Guy,

I share your sentiments exactly. Like you say the obverse looks good, suggestive of a worn or ground-dug example, but it's strange to see green copper-oxide corrosion on a zinc badge. The reverse shows obviously the incorrect catch and top hook and incorrect crimp diameter, not to mention strange pitting on the reverse of the eagle's head, leaving one to wonder whether it's a fake or at best a restored original. But if restored, then why does the "restoration" show all the same type of "aging".

In the end, whether it's a messed with and restored original or a clever fake artificially aged, it will always have issues.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Here are two examples of a known type of fake JFS Destroyer. Different from yours but could be steps in an evolutionary process. For a while in the past, the fakers put pointed ends on the top hooks of fake Destroyer (likewise with fake S.H.u.Co.s) before they figured out that was unwise.

Best regards,
---Norm

[ancientrelicsuk]

Hi Norm,

Thanks for the very comprehensive reply. It's very informative to be able to compare my badge directly with a good original. As you say, there are lots of issues here. I guess this will be another one for the 'dud' drawer.

Many thanks again, best regards, Guy

[Mike Kenny]

From what I can see, the zinc JFS is probably a worn original example with variant hardware.

Regards
Mike

[ancientrelicsuk]

Thanks Mike, I appreciate your comments. Looks like this one is a bit of a mystery.
Thanks again, best regards, Guy

[Norm F]

Hi Guy,

Could you perhaps show some closeups of the three crimps - hinge, catch and top hook -- from an angle. And while you're at it some oblique views showing the margins of the badge?

Finally, if you have accurate equipment, the weight in grams and height and width in mm?

Best regards,
---Norm

[ancientrelicsuk]

Hi Norm,

I am sorry the attached pics are not that good, please let me know if not good enough, and I'll try retaking them.

Thanks again, Best regards, Guy

[ancientrelicsuk]

Here's detail of the top hook crimp and pin assembly

[ancientrelicsuk]

The needle and an edge shot...

[ancientrelicsuk]

Weight is 24.3 grams.
Height is 54.07 mm.
Maximum width is 45.38 mm (wreath edge to prow tip)

[Mike Kenny]

I'm convinced the badge is original after seeing the additional edge shots. I'm now thinking the catch and top hook are replacements though. The ball hinge appears OK though

Regards
Mike

[Norm F]

Well, the weight and dimensions are correct for an original.

Mike certainly has a point. The ball hinge looks good, but the catch and top hook are clearly not original.

Here are some hardware comparisons. A lot of careful effort seems to have gone into creating and attaching those unusual replacements.

[Norm F]

...but the ball hinge and pin look pretty good, if rather heavily worn.

[Norm F]

I was initially put off by the positioning of the hinge and catch on the reverse which seemed lower than originals, but after searching around I found another example with similarly located hardware.

Here you can see the differences between the far more prevalent "Type 1" and the less common "Type 2". Note the distance between the top of the hinge crimp and the lower right corner of the internal cutout -- much greater distance in the "Type 2". And also note the position of the catch crimp relative to the distinctive notch in the wreath design which is a useful landmark (marked with red arrows) -- the catch in the "Type 2" is considerably lower than the "Type 1". Guy's badge (in the bottom right corner of the image) matches the "Type 2".

So thanks to Mike, maybe we can avoid "throwing out the baby with the bath water".

Best regards,
---Norm