horizontal MINENWEESPER

[tranchant]

hello km specialists!
do you know the maker?
thank you very mutch!
best regards
patrick

[BubbaZ]

Hi Patrick,
It's Deumer zincer but the hardware is replaced and upper pin missing.
Here is mine for comparison.
Cheers,
Hubert

[tranchant]

minen

hello
many thanks hubert for your quick answer! i am surprised that the hardware is replaced ,because i have this badge in a veteran lot with all originals items!
greetings
patrick

[Tim B.]

Patrick,

I think what Hubert is trying to point out, is the outline where the original block style hinge is showing.

It could be a simple layout mark where the hinge was supposed to be soldered and for some reason they used a later style hinge, common on Deumer pieces.

I have never been a hard and fast rule guy on hardware, as I believe manufacturers used what was on hand and with a zinc piece, its possible IMO.

Anyway, I'll show a couple of my Deumer minesweepers and you can think about it.

Tim

[Tim B.]

First, the unmarked Deumer with horizontal pin and block style hinge.

Second, a later Deumer with vertical pin and the smaller type hinge that I believe matches your example. Note on mine, the catch has been replaced, not sure when but its the way I got it.

[Tim B.]

And an angle shot showing the hardware and hallmark better.

If you cannot see any signs of a repair and you're confident that it originated from the veteran, then I wouldn't worry about it too much.

It is possible your example is a transition piece but I think its just another case of the guy assembling the badge using what hardware he had on hand.

Tim

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

The catch is clearly replaced. The top hook is clearly gone. As mentioned the outline from the original block hinge plate is visible.

It's just too much of a stretch to suggest that this is an atypical one-off factory-made zincer utilizing this hinge, and that later just the other two hardware components were broken off.

I think someone removed all the hardware at some point (possibly to mount for display) and later restored a hinge and catch but not a top hook. (Clear closeups of the hardware attachments would likely tell the story.)

Best regards,
---Norm

[Tim B.]

Hi Norm,

Long time, hope you're doing well.

Top hooks are gone all the time, this one appears to be either pulled completely out of the socket or ..?

I do not see any residue or open signs of a repair at the catch. Yes, the catch is not the classic Deumer pattern and it appears more copperish on my monitor but I have seen this coloration with improper cleaning as well.

As you stated, close ups of the hardware and surrounding area would help considerably.

Tim

[tranchant]

minen

hello
thank for all your opinions!her another view!
many thank to all your time!
best regards
patrick

[Norm F]

Hi Tim,

I'm well thanks and hope you are the same.

Well, we both agree that closeups would be helpful, but that's just not a catch that I've ever seen on any Deumer award, and certainly not on any Deumer Minesweeper. Regarding the hinge, you can see abrasions on either side of the area caused by whatever tool was used to remove the original hinge.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Patrick's closeups on top and an unrestored original for comparison.

[Norm F]

Two more.

[Tim B.]

Morning Norm,

Yes, I understand the catch is not the "typical" style used by Deumer.

Do you think the badge was re-silvered on the reverse (after any repair) as it looks like original frosting around the top hook, hinge, and catch area. Or, perhaps it just looks that way in the photos?

I can see the two areas towards the right side of the badge, maybe from a vice or something else used to hold the badge (perhaps file marks?) and can't really tell if that's solder and file marks at the base of the catch. Is that what you're seeing here?

Tim

[tranchant]

minen

hello tim and norm
thank you very mutch for your hard search!
i want to sold this badge because i am not a KM collector! i think that a good price is 80 or 100€ with this repar!
i want no do a ridiculous price for the collector!
best regards
patrick