High Seas Fleet for review

[EDcollectibles]

Posting this for comments.. Very interesting, as it seems to be made from different makers.. Thoughts welcome! Thanks

[EDcollectibles]

2x

[EDcollectibles]

last 2

[BubbaZ]

Hi Doug,
Tricky one.
From the obverse design and cutouts it looks like late war Rettenmaier HSF but the hardware is very strange. The upper pin is very Deumer like but the main pin, hinge and the catch is not, and number 3 in the maker’s mark is different than I have seen on Deumers (EK, KVK), but I am not experienced in crosses at all so I could miss something. I lean to think that this is kind of postwar assembly badge. Surely not one of the known wartime HSF variants.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

Surely not one of the known wartime HSF variants.

I agree, not like any wartime badge, and in my opinion likely an old fake. For one thing, the "3" is not correct for a Deumer mark. Also, it's not the first time we've seen "boxed number" fakes; here's a fake zinc Minesweeper with a boxed "5".

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

Hi Norm,
What about a Rettenmaier planchet assembled postwar with postwar hardware and bogus maker's mark? Does it hold water for you?
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

What about a Rettenmaier planchet assembled postwar with postwar hardware and bogus maker's mark? Does it hold water for you?

Hi Hubert,

Well, hand cutting/filing of the margins is not only a feature of the "flatback"/Rettenmaier-attributed badges, and it's also a technique which can hide a multitude of sins on a fake. As a result one can expect a superficial resemblance between "flatbacks" and any zinc fake with hand-filed margins.

But when we think of "flatbacks" we expect striations on the reverse and aggressively hand-cut margins like seen on the reverse of these two examples.

In contrast, the badge in question lacks the linear striations on the reverse surface, and raised margins can be seen wherever it wasn't filed very much. This raised margin is not something you see on typical Rettenmaier-attributed badges. That's not to say that badge couldn't have been made post-war from a wartime die -- I just don't see any proof of it being a leftover wartime planchet.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

For reference, here's a comparison between the two types of boxed "3" seen on Deumer awards and the false "3" on the main pin of the Fleet badge.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Looks like there's some kind of "+" mark pressed into the hinge block? Hinge pin is strange too.

[Norm F]

Well, hand cutting/filing of the margins is not only a feature of the "flatback"/Rettenmaier-attributed badges...

Here's a post-war Souval, also with hand cut margins.

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

Hi Norm,
Thank you very much for such broad explanation
I also noticed the lack of stiriations on the reverse typical for 'flatbacks', and the raised margins which you marked on the image are really a bad sign.
Here is my Rettenmaier.
Cheers,
Hubert

[TPK]

I believe there are some other post on WAF about numbers in a box like 3, 5 , and I had a 43 in box on a Army Flak. Well made pieces but some speculate they are some kind of production number some say post war. TPK