U-boot Kriegsabzeichen L/56 from Lakeside Trader

[Grimes]

Interesting bit of information Norm.

I have seen other original badges that are worn like mine that look the same with a rough surface. Also, wouldn't we see casting lines all around the inside and outside of the badge, as well as deep pores and air bubbles if it was cast?

That doesn't seem to be the case with this one.

[Norm F]

I have seen other original badges that are worn like mine that look the same with a rough surface. Also, wouldn't we see casting lines all around the inside and outside of the badge, as well as deep pores and air bubbles if it was cast?

That doesn't seem to be the case with this one.

Hi Grimes,

When we see casting seams and and obvious air bubbles then it's easy to spot a poor quality casting, but none of these features are evident on high quality reproductions where greater skill is used in process and finishing. That's why it's easy to spot the bad fakes and difficult to spot the good fakes. And to complicate things further, sometimes it's not a matter of casting but of sloppy post-war assembly and hand finishing of leftover parts.

It's for these reasons that I cannot say with conviction that your badge is a fake -- only that it has many atypical features that make me uneasy. I have worn zincers in my Minesweeper collection but none have that rough surface and lack of obverse detail -- that's a feature often seen on ground-dug badges but it doesn't look like this is a cleaned up ground-dug badge.

What might be helpful is if you can provide the overall height and width in mm with accurate calipers and weight in grams to one decimal place for comparison to originals.

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

Thanks Norm.

[Grimes]

Sounds good Norm. Unfortunately I do not own calipers or a small weight scale to do the test.

Kind of strange we have seen other badges that have these details, because if this was a sole example, I would be inclined to call it a post-war/fake.

I wonder if any other undocumented variations exist with L/56 badges or even with other manufacturers.

[Norm F]

Kind of strange we have seen other badges that have these details, because if this was a sole example, I would be inclined to call it a post-war/fake.

Hi Grimes,

The fact that there are two of them doesn't allow us to draw any conclusions.

Here are two examples of a cast fake of the L/18 zinc Mayer U-Boat badge. These are the only two examples of this fake I've ever seen but that doesn't make them any less fake...

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

Sounds good Norm. Unfortunately I do not own calipers or a small weight scale to do the test.

Kind of strange we have seen other badges that have these details, because if this was a sole example, I would be inclined to call it a post-war/fake.

I wonder if any other undocumented variations exist with L/56 badges or even with other manufacturers.

Calipers would be very helpful. They are cheap, with the scale, on Amazon. The digital types. John

[Norm F]

The F&BL U-Boat (like pretty well all badges) has been targeted by "reproduction artists" in the past. Here's a nicely made casting in "Tombak" which is over 2 mm smaller than an original zincer in both height and width.

[Grimes]

Very interesting to see the unmarked fake. The catch looks a lot different though.

The thing I notice with the reproductions is they are copied from 'typical' original badges. The hardware looks different, but still the badges look typical.


I know Paul from Lakeside used this forum to ask questions on certain items, so I'll send him an email with the link if he wants to add anything like where he obtained it and such.

[Norm F]

The F&BL U-Boat (like pretty well all badges) has been targeted by "reproduction artists" in the past. Here's a nicely made casting in "Tombak" which is over 2 mm smaller than an original zincer in both height and width.

A bit off topic but here's another of the same type as post #22, but this one is marked as "835" silver, was described as "jeweller-made" and came with some documents from the family of a German navy officer (seen here). If it was jeweller-made for an individual I'm not sure why there would be more than one coming to light and why only one is stamped 835. These pieces are a bit of a mystery, but by no stretch of the imagination were they official wartime awards.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Grimes]

Forgot to update this thread, but Paul from Lakeside looked at this post and the email I sent him, and replied back.

The badge came from a collector as part of a buy with various other items, all of which were originals.

Paul did his research before listing it and from what I've personally researched and see on the badge, while it does have some atypical features, I have no problem believing Paul that it is wartime.

[Norm F]

I have no doubts about Paul and Nathan's integrity and fair business practise; they are honest men and experienced collectors over a wide area. I just don't share their or your conviction about this badge being wartime; for me there will always be the possibility of post-war assembly for atypical items with cruder detail like this. But certainly there's room for differences of opinion in gray areas such as this.

If you ever invest in an inexpensive scale and digital calipers please post the weight in grams and the overall dimensions in millimetres to 1 decimal place for future reference.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Grimes]

Yeah, I understand your stance Norm. In a time prevalent with so many fakes, it's a real minefield getting to the other side with some of these.

I'll update this thread again if I get measurements and weight on the badge at some point.