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Oh my. I guess that's the one Stan referred to in post #3. If I understand that description correctly, even after saying it's not known if any were awarded, they eventually go on to suggest that there's a "high probability" this is a "certain contemporary masterpiece" for the Kriegsmarine Commander-in-Chief with a suggested value of 20,000 Euro!
It's certainly the same type as the Souval-attributed piece at the start of the thread. That's just plain embarrassing.
Best regards,
---NormComment
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Two more:Comment
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Yes, that's the one I saw in Kassel. Andreas Thies was very embarrassed when I told him it was a fake but still offered it in his auction.
StanComment
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No Ludwig, not surprised at all but VERY disappointed.
Still, is it any different on estand?
StanComment
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Guess not, my friend...Originally posted by Stan View Post
Under all circumstances, I hope that everything is OK with you!
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This badge is attributed to Admiral Otto Schniewind and displayed with his grouping at the Hamburg Maritime Museum.
Apparently, he was awarded this piece on July 30th, 1944..Comment
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Like to see the Volksplege decoration when you get the chance. JohnOriginally posted by Alex W. View PostNorm, thanks for adding some of my pictures to this interesting thread.
Souval's Diamond (Saphire) decorations are indeed very interesting and beautiful, especially the pieces of the early post war years. The definite highlight of all of his saphire decorations is the very rare special class of the Volkspflege decoration. It's a jeweler made neckcross made of silver with 110
white spahires.
It's worksmanship exeeds everything else seen by Souval. It's by far the most beautiful decoration I have seen yet. If I find the time I might take a picture and add it in here.
Best regards,
AlexComment
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This badge posted by Sepp isn't the Souval design so a bit off topic, but it's worth commenting on as it's an odd duck. It looks different from any standard Fleet badge in the small details and seems to be from an unrelated die and then gems simply studded into the standard-sized swastika. The silvered ship with only the lower waves darkened is quite unusual as well. Admiral Otto Schniewind never earned the Oakleaves and therefore never qualified for a badge with diamonds, so if it ever did belong to him I guess it would have been a novelty item or memento of some kind?Originally posted by Sepp45 View Post
In fact nobody ever qualified for a Fleet badge with Diamonds except for Theodor Krancke (who never received one anyway).
Best regards,
---NormLast edited by Norm F; 08-30-2014, 12:10 PM.Comment
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Stan,Originally posted by Stan View Post
There is a difference I think in that on estand there is the ability to discuss any listed artifact by a moderator linking a discussion thread to the sales thread. This back and forth discussion between the sale thread and the discussion thread enables a potential buyer to think about the item and make up their mind based on the information provided.
This is not possible usually during an auction unless some forum gets interested maybe.
If you, or anybody else, spots a Kriegsmarine item that should be discussed, start a discussion thread and let Norm or myself know so we can link the two threads.
Estand is not perfect, but the issues there on authenticity are not usually the issues that plague collectors--payment, shipping, damage, etc, are the problems, all of which can and should be avoided using a bit of common sense.
JohnLast edited by John R.; 08-30-2014, 03:33 PM.Comment
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It is possible that the museum displays involve tax write offs maybe. That could explain why they are there, somebody making money with the tax deduction by convincing the museum curator to accept the story and the artifact and provide a receipt for the donation.
Think about it, especially when you see these diamonds badges listed on dealer sites.
I am not saying this is what is happening, I am only suggesting that valuation can be proved through auction listings and claimed sales.
Happens all the time with ancient ceramics, and just because an artifact has a "sold" notation, that sold notation might only be there to establish value in the paper trail, including insurance claims.
I am not at all claiming this is the case with the badge listed in the above auction listing or the badge in Hamburg, I am saying it is the case with ancient artifacts, fake ancient artifacts, stolen artifacts, etc.
JohnComment
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That's the date it says..Originally posted by John Robinson View Post
Despite the fact we all know that award document is a fake, it's the only reference I have about it.Comment
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