Juncker Small Unit Battle Clasp

[Norm F]

So in summary, I see four possibilities for the badge that started the thread:

1) very early '57 era production by S&L, later spuriously marked by someone to try to increase its value
2) very early '57 era production by S&L, supplied to Juncker for marking and retail
3) very early '57 era production by Juncker
4) total fake complete with fake maker mark

But none of the scenarios are wartime production.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

The only other example posted on the forum of this exact variant with fluted pin is this one, again marked Juncker. Looks like it was in silver (Level 6).

[Norm F]

Unfortunately, I think the LDO envelope detracts further from any impression of legitimacy.

[JAndrew]

Norm,
Very interesting discussion. Just to clarify one of my comments, when I said I had not seen a fluted pin on a post war badge I was refering specifically to the K-verband badge. I have seen it on others as you have pointed out. I also note that the clasp end of the pin is different on the K-verband and the Marinefrontspnge presented here. Too bad we cannot see the pin on the second K-verband badge you have shown. I have kept a fake U-boat clasp that has a fluted pin but have not compared it to these to see if there are similarities but I shall.

I think the four scenarios you have put forth are as close as we can come to a conclusion at this point.
Regards,
JAndrew

[Norm F]

Norm,
I also note that the clasp end of the pin is different on the K-verband and the Marinefrontspnge presented here.

Hi JAndrew,

From the descriptions in the Herstellungsvorschriften you can see that the Marine Frontspange is almost a centimetre longer than the Kampfabzeichen der Kleinkampfmittel. If you cut the end of the fluted pin on the catch end to the right length for the shorter badge, then they look about the same.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Another interesting comparison. When this clasp was posted in the '57 forum, Nigel felt is was a 1960's S&L clasp with the mark added by someone else. It's definitely the same "Juncker" stamp as the first clasp.

[Norm F]

more comparison between the "1960's S&L marked Juncker" and the "fluted pin marked Juncker".

a) cutouts are different
b) the obverses are very similar but definitely different dies as you can tell most easily by looking at the sawfish's eye.

But the Juncker stamps are definitely the same as mentioned before (although different from Juncker's wartime marks). To my eye, the bronze fluted pin version seems earlier than the silver narrow-pin version -- perhaps 1950's vs. 1960's?

To a TR collector they're all crap anyway, but these nuances may still be of interest to some '57 collectors.

Best regards,
---Norm