5-feather U-Boat opinions

[kfs]

Hello

This Badge is new in my Collection

I think its a original and an unknown maker right ?

Thanks for your opinions

[kfs]

m

[kfs]

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[Norm F]

Hi kfs,

Your photos look oddly compressed laterally, making the badge appear more round than oval. I've tried to correct that for this image and I presume this looks more like your badge?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Hello
I think its a original and an unknown maker right ?

Thanks for your opinions

So to answer your question, I share your opinion, although not much is known for sure about these "5-feather" U-Boat badges. It's UC# 8.1.1 in the U-Boat Classification table.

What we know for sure:
1) As Sascha (Emeredato) can tell you, they have turned up in German vet groupings in recent times.
2) They have a generally convincing "wartime compatible" construction.
3) They appear in publication in 1957 and so are at least that old.
4) There is a fake hollow version which has tended to cast a shadow over them, but which may simply be a fake based upon the wartime version.

Here is the image from Kurt-Gerhard Klietmann's 1957 paperback publication on German awards (courtesy of Gentry). Although that doesn't prove wartime production, I think the period between 1945 and 1957 was probably not an era for the development of an entirely new design of swastika bearing fakes -- that came later. Sure there could be post-war assembly of leftovers in that era but I favour the theory that these were produced in late wartime. It's just unproven.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Some comparisons. Here's your 5-feather U-Boat reverse photo compared to the rare zinc Schwerin U-Boat (Rob Hudspith's example). Although they have different obverse designs there is remarkable similarity between the internal cutouts raising the the possibility of a shared source of trimming tooling or some other "shared influence".

Also here's a view of the hinge and dome-head hinge pin on another 5-feather U-Boat compared with the hinges on other Berlin makers' zincers. It's certainly "wartime compatible" hardware, and again possibly a Berlin influence with the same hinge pin.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Here's another example of the 5-feather U-Boat but with a variant type of flat-wire catch. That catch is not as widespread as the usual generic flat-wire catch but is seen on Juncker and "Juncker-like" products, another potential Berlin connection.

[Norm F]

For completeness, here's the clearly post-war hollow fake side-by-side with a zincer, clearly distinguishable from the obverse by the lack of swastika cutouts in the hollow version.

The mere existence of the hollow version has cast a shadow on the 5-feather design badges, but it wouldn't be the first time a hollow fake was made based upon a wartime badge. A clear precedent exists in the good quality hollow fake destroyer based upon the Schickle-design Destroyer.

Best regards,
---Norm

[kfs]

thanks Norm

[John T]

hollow fake U-Boat and die

Hi Norm, I have this hollowback fake U-Boat and what appears to be a matching die, note the markings on the die...any thoughts?

[John T]

more

[John T]

more..

[John T]

marking-

[Norm F]

Hi John,

Fascinating! Thanks for posting this mysterious artifact. Obviously the die set for the hollow version and not the solid version since you have both the negative obverse die and the positive reverse die, both with matching "SCHWERIN" marks.

So the question is whether this is just a fake post-war die set or did Schwerin in fact come up with a second U-Boat design late mid-war (dated March 9, 1943 on that die set) and this is tooling that survived the war? As discussed in this thread, the solid zinc 5-feather U-Boat certainly has some production features in common with the Schwerin zinc U-Boat. And the same mysterious "TW" stamp that appears on your hollow badge (with the post-war setup) also appears on the mysterious eagle pin showed on page 223 of "Torpedo Los" which is an exact match to Schwerin's U-boat eagle.

This raises more questions than it answers. Is it all an elaborate hoax or did someone get a hold of Schwerin's leftover wartime tooling and make some post-war reproductions?

Best regards,
---Norm

[John T]

Hi Norm,

Thank you for your comments.

What indeed puzzles me are the markings on the male and female dies. If they were simply used to strike the copy hollowback badge shown why the need to mark them as shown? Indeed an effort at an elaborate hoax or leftover dies that were never used for wartime production.

John