refinishing of original badge Question.

[amiklic1]

It also depends on the badge. I would agree that such a change on a second pattern SB S-boat would ruin it since that dull grey is what the wreath should look like.

I'd never refinish my 2nd type Schwerin Schnellbootabzeichen ;-).
I even think it never had a gilded wreath.

[Norm F]

I'd never refinish my 2nd type Schwerin Schnellbootabzeichen ;-).
I even think it never had a gilded wreath.

Hi Andjelo,

An excellent example of Schwerin's late war wash gilding that fades to grey. "Gilding" simply means applying any gold colored layer of whatever type, so in that sense it was certainly a "gilded" wreath.

Best regards,
---Norm

[amiklic1]

So, as there are the remains of the dark grey/black layer here, would it mean that there was no gold gilding on that spot or that the gold gilding was applied after the grey/black one?

[juoneen]

On the subject of refinishing/restoring whatever your rationalization is , this is one of the problems with the hobby. Once done, it all at once (down the road) is many times never mentioned again...then somewhere along the line someone who "gets Ideas" then passes it off as original..and someone become a victim of over paying for garbage.

There are only two positions IMO to take on this subject, and they are :1.Purists....(those who after many years of screwing up, finally learn to leave things as found)
and: 2. the nimrod approach (those who clean items to death, refinish , add hardware, and even destroy items worth more before their brilliant nimrodding of it..


If collectors are only interested in mint items, then pass on the ones that are not, and only purchase the items that do not need altering...the increasing amount of nimrods in the hobby is only driving the value up on even common badges that have been left untouched...don't they know that items that have been there in combat will show wear, finish depletion, oxidation,and also damage at times, and this is truly appreciated more by most experienced collectors, and only makes the nimrods just cheap farbs intending on eventually taking advantage, and as a result short changing their own collections and reputations...to be known as farbs.


We keep seeing these threads, and those who think doing anything to vet found items as found is O.K. are the ones who will not be respected in the hobby once the word gets out...SO...choose either #1 or #2, as most nimrods are number two's in my book when they score a perfectly good find...then have to try to make an item look brand new......


Please note , I am not speaking about show found items ,as many items have already been messed with by the nimrods the dealers purchase some of their inventory from, and also has been owned by many other nimrods prior...so my position pertains only to vet found items in any condition that have never previously been owned by a TR collector prior. True estate items must be protected by those who know better...and be choosy to whom you sell your items to when that time ever comes..

That is the Primary reason I no longer endorse shows, or suggest you be buying from any but the top dealers who never touch anything, nor add anything to make items complete...there are few dealers who actually truly live the hobby this way, and most of the folks who do are not dealers, but private collectors...who know better,as all dealers have been guilty of this transgression at one time or another thinking it will net them bigger profits, or reselling items purchased from farbs who have done the dirty deed already...


This messing around with items eventually turns real collectors away once realized, no matter what they claim. If you are not a purist You ain't no friend of mine...but the enemy. Take this to the bank:" LEAVE ALL ITEMS AS FOUND" or be spoken about behind your backs as a farb , and not be taken seriously again ,even to sell items to....I would refuse to sell to anybody who I know will farb an original Item I have protected for many decades...

In the case of a san diego museum that burned,(balboa park) and many of the burned medals owned by famous men such a Eddie Rickenbacker...were restored...and even re enameled ...in that case...that is alright, as they will not be sold on the open market , but be displayed as restored...I have the article on that fire and that restoration project...this is the only case senario that is acceptable in my purist attitude...now go out and be a number 1, or be known as NUMBER TWO.

My complements to those with like thinking.

[John R.]

This thread comes to mind:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ighlight=malta

[Terrence]

I agree, big difference between restoring and refinishing. My bad, I missed the zinc part.

My father, a retired colonel, polished his brass till the details were worn away. He continued to polish his brass after he retired and for reunions .When he finally passed, his brass was polished then. I personally like the patina of oxidation on many badges. However, I do keep a set of badges polished out of respect. Thus, restoring them to their appearance as they were in use. A little bit of a drift from the question in the original post but the older I get, the more I enjoy good dialog. My apologies to those offended.

Terrence

[amiklic1]

In the case of a san diego museum that burned,(balboa park) and many of the burned medals owned by famous men such a Eddie Rickenbacker...were restored...and even re enameled ...in that case...that is alright, as they will not be sold on the open market , but be displayed as restored...I have the article on that fire and that restoration project...this is the only case senario that is acceptable in my purist attitude...now go out and be a number 1, or be known as NUMBER TWO.

Sorry for cutting just part of your post, but I will refer just to this small part.
In fact, I agree with what you stated overall, BUT, what's the difference in the fact that the piece is held by museum (which, btw., is not a guarantee that the piece will not be sold sometime) or if it sits in a private collection?

Many pieces were damaged, broken, polished, cleaned, unprofessionally "repaired" and whatever else stupidity people can do AFTER the war.

My point of view is that either you are a "purist" or you're not, and allowing the museum the right to restore and to all other not to do it is, to say it decent, at least strange.
From strictly historical point of view, there is no difference between some general's awards and some soldier's ones, and I'd even say it's opposite than common thinking as the soldier usually bleed and suffer for the small EK2 much more than a general did. Also, 2 war patrols for an U-boat badge sometimes meant more than a full year alone on the rough seas, depth charged numerous times etc etc etc... So, my opinion is that, even if we all love to have some "important person's" items, it's just a marketing BS and reflection of the (false) rarity, as every piece has a name connected to it.

There are people with collection preserved and kept in a much better conditions than in any museum. Not only militaria but all kind, of course, and many of those items would be unrecognizable if they were kept as found. Even worse, many would be fallen apart during the time.

It's a rough world, many are trying to cheat and earn dishonest money and fake whatever is possible to sell, but that's still not the reason to blame every man who is trying to get to a good presentation level by professionally restoring a piece.

If it would be than black and white as you suggest, than we'd all be Nazis, wouldn't we? Either you throw that things away if you are not, or keeping it if you are. There are many people around us, usually with IQ equal to a room temperature, who are thinking about it that way, and we don't like it. It's the same in this topic.