Classification of U-Boat Badges based on obverse design

[BubbaZ]

Wow, Norm, thanks a lot my friend! This is so helpful
now I know what made you busy this Christmas
Cheers,
Hubert

[schwelch]

Hi Norm,

that's again a great work!!! This will be very helpful for every U-Boat badge collector. I really like your classification tables - thanks a lot!!!

Best regards
Sven

[amiklic1]

Thank you Norm!
I am speechless with great explanation and all those nice details.

I dare to say that this hobby is driving the right direction because of people like you.

[John R.]

1.1 looks good. I think the chart now needs to be tested as we identify U-boat badges as we did with the MS chart to see if anything was missed or out of order.

Good work Norm.

John

[JAndrew]

Norm,
I would like to add my appreciation for your hard work that others have already expressed. One would imagine that some of the eagle variations would have been as easily grouped or classified separately yet the breakdown is certainly logical and workable. It is also very nice that you have combined the information from the prior classifications found here. I always seem to greet your classifications with a mixture admiration and interest in how you have broken down a particular badge's manufacture and dread because you usually have doubled at the least the variants to collect! But I guess that just goes along with our common affliction as collectors.
Again, well done.
JAndrew

[John R.]

I agree. 1.1 built on what Rob and I had done in our timeline years ago. I have no idea how Norm was able to do the rest. Pretty amazing.

John

[pdawg1911]

Awesome work. Thanks !

[RichardT]

Great job Norm.

Richard

[Norm F]

I think the chart now needs to be tested as we identify U-boat badges as we did with the MS chart to see if anything was missed or out of order.

Good work Norm.

John

Thanks for the comments, Guys. Like John says, moving forward we need to test out the classification table to see if any modifications or additions are required.

The general criterion to make it on to the list (as in the Minesweeper classification) is a variant for which at least two unequivocal examples have been posted over the years. Variations in the gilding are not included due to the subjectivity of that assessment.

Having said that, the occasional "one off" may appear, grandfathered in from the previous classification systems, such as the Tombak Juncker screwback variant that was posted by Gordon Williamson in the past. That one has the same type of screwback as seen on some other Juncker awards so is not a post-factory modification, and therefore it seemed useful and interesting to include it in the table.

Best regards,
---Norm

[AndyC]

Well done, you have done a great work Norm


Andy

[JAndrew]

Based on Norm's and John's comments are we about to start a photo-fest of all of these variants?

If so might I suggest we try to standardize what shots are submitted for each badge? For instance (and I am not saying this is the way to do it): Obverse, reverse pin down, reverse pin up, catch from 6 o'clock, hinge from 12 o'clock and 3 or 9 o'clock and inner hinge from 45 degrees, close ups of any die flaws and/or unique markings. And perhaps take them with a MM scale ruler at the edge if it is not distorted. Also, day light or light box but no flash and a standard back ground.

I think that if we could all work together to accomplish this we would be creating an awesome reference tool. Again, just a suggestion.
JAndrew

[Norm F]

Hi JAndrew,

I don't think we want this thread to show examples of all 94 variants!

The database thread already shows one or more variants of every maker's badge:
List of U-boat Badge/Clasp Manufacturers
and anyone can add their variants to that thread.

The previous threads on the Schwerin, Juncker, S&L, Schickle, Meybauer and Orth timelines already show all those variants and those threads are already pinned here:
Classification Systems of U-Boat Badges by maker

For other makers, if one wants more detail, I'd suggest individual threads for each maker that show all the variants, and those could then be linked back to this classification thread. Over time, if individual variants crop up that were not initially included then I'll add them to the table and update the thread.

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

Based on Norm's and John's comments are we about to start a photo-fest of all of these variants?

If so might I suggest we try to standardize what shots are submitted for each badge? For instance (and I am not saying this is the way to do it): Obverse, reverse pin down, reverse pin up, catch from 6 o'clock, hinge from 12 o'clock and 3 or 9 o'clock and inner hinge from 45 degrees, close ups of any die flaws and/or unique markings. And perhaps take them with a MM scale ruler at the edge if it is not distorted. Also, day light or light box but no flash and a standard back ground.

I think that if we could all work together to accomplish this we would be creating an awesome reference tool. Again, just a suggestion.
JAndrew

We can start with your SB HSF badge perhaps to see what you are talking about, plus measurements and weights.

Otherwise, purchasing the KM Awards might be helpful.

John

[JAndrew]

Norm,
I understand where the information is located here but was just seeing if it would be pulled together even more. Not a problem. This is still a great reference thread.

John,
Alright, holidays are over. I will buckle down and get the HSF info together and post it. And I have the books but there are only about 45 or 50 variants in the books. That and the Minesweeper sections are just drops in the buckets that Norm creates! (That was meant as a compliment, Norm.)

JAndrew

[Norm F]

And I have the books but there are only about 45 or 50 variants in the books. That and the Minesweeper sections are just drops in the buckets that Norm creates! (That was meant as a compliment, Norm.)

JAndrew

Thanks JAndrew.

The way I see it, the comprehensive U-Boat and Minesweeper Classification tables have a different target audience from the books. If one decides to specialize in a specific award as a variant collector then the tables are really useful. If one were to publish a reference book on a single type of award, again the table is a useful basis for such a project.

In contrast, "The Kriegsmarine Awards" in 3 volumes is intended for the general Kriegsmarine awards collector, and is also useful as a reference for collectors or historians of other aspects of the Wehrmacht who want to be able to look up KM award-related facts. As such it depicts every maker's badge (without exception I think) and a healthy whack of variants but not every single one -- more than enough for anyone who isn't as obsessive as you or me or Hubert and it won't cause a hernia.

One could say that in an ideal world, eventually it would be nice to see a 3-volume 2nd edition which blends Volume III's errata and additions into the first two, with an expanded number of lesser variants and a chapter on the Schützenschnur, etc., but realistically I doubt that will occur in the next ten years!

Best regards,
---Norm