gwl u boat badge

[tintin]

Hello fellow collectors, I would appreciate all opinions on this u boat badge.
Regards,
T
Please note this is not the same u boat badge as shown in a previous thread

[tintin]

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[tintin]

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[tintin]

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[Norm F]

Hi tintin,

The GWL U-Boat badge always requires very careful study because it's a favorite target of high quality fakers. Could you please also provide:
a) photos of the exterior and interior margins
b) accurate weight and dimensions
c) any story behind this example?

Best regards,
---Norm

[JAndrew]

Tintin,
I would agree with all Norm says and the need for further information.

There are a few things that make me look twice at this badge even without the other information.
On the reverse I like to see the sides of the hinge smooth and rounded and not "faceted" like this one.
I like to see a tool mark at the top of the pin.
I prefer the helical band on the pin but realize not all good ones have it.
The clasp is not the same thickness from side to side but tapers from thick on the closed side to thin on the open side.
Is that dirt or solder under the pin at the hinge? Nothing should be soldered unless there was a repair.
On the obverse I see some tiny round beads in the metal that 1) goes along with casting which these were but 2) aren't seen in good ones that I am aware of.

So let's see what the others have to say.
JAndrew

[JAndrew]

This badge seems to me from the same source as the one in this thread but I don't see a final conclusion reached as to authenticity:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=GWL+fake

JAndrew

[Norm F]

I was hoping tintin could provide some more info, but guess I'll just follow along with what we have here.

I think JAndrew makes a lot of good observations and I agree it's very much like the dubious one posted previously by Mike for discussion.

Firstly, when you compare the eagle to an accepted original there's considerable difference in the fine detail and in the finish.

Secondly, as JAndrew said, there's an unusual taper to the catch as shown in this comparison.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

A common feature of cast reproductions is that the dent from the tension foot of the wire main pin from the original is reproduced in the copy, and then a new dent from the newly applied pin of the fake creates a second indentation.

As JAndrew already pointed out, the top of the pin lacks the usual tooling mark on originals, but also beyond that you can see that the tension foot pin is bent at a different angle from originals. The second image compares the badge in question to a known Staegemeir reproduction and they both show an incorrectly bent tension foot and a second indentation that was reproduced from the original.

[Norm F]

Finally, there's a slight cupping of the reverse surface that you don't see on classic original GWL examples, whereas you do see that same cupping on some Staegemeir copies like the fake Hymmen Minesweepers shown here. (The Minesweepers are easier to spot though because in that case the castings reproduced a lot of distinctive surface flaws that are easy to see.)

All this, leads me to believe the badge being discussed here is yet another sophisticated
GWL copy. Height, width, planchet thickness and weight might help further in this and future determinations.

I don't know what makes the GWL U-Boat such a favorite target for reproduction artists. It's not that expensive a badge, but on the other hand maybe the cast-in hardware is easier for them to copy than real hardware?

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

Thanks Norm , your ability to see such details is incredible

[greg1878]

Excellent work again Norm.
I agree that this badge must be targeted due to the hardware being easier to replicate, GWL Para badges are also heavily faked.
Cheers - Greg

[tintin]

u

Hello norm, i will provide some more information soon as i am working away from home until next week. However you have provided some good observations already.
Regards
T

[tintin]

info

Hello, the weight of this example is 17g, I'm afraid there is no story behind this one. accurate dimensions will follow
Regards,
T