Otto Schickle U-Boat Timeline

[Norm F]

Type 2.4.5

Type 2: Tombak, solid

2.4: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, "P-shaped" stamped sheet metal catch

2.4.5 - four cut-out arms on swastika, pin stamped "L/52" by C.F. Zimmermann

As in the case of Type 2.4.3 marked by Mayer, we can see that Zimmermann, the third member of the "Liefergemeinschaft Deutscher Orden und Ehrenzeichen, Pforzheim", also acquired Schickle products and stamped them L/52 into the pin. The U-Boats marked in this manner are very rare and the few seen have all four arms of the swastika cut out like this example previously posted by Michel.

[Norm F]

L/52

This situation of Zimmermann marking Schickle products is made doubly clear by the awards shown here which had already been marked by Schickle in the planchet prior to Zimmermann marking the pin.

[Norm F]

Type 3

Type 3: zinc, solid

As mentioned before, there are no discernible die differences across the spectrum of variants of the solid version.

It has been previously supposed that Schickle could not have made the zinc version having been disbarred in mid-1941, but there is no true basis for this assumption since it's clear zinc was in use in 1941 by S.H.u.Co. and that Shickle was working in zinc already in the cores of his L/15 EKs (attached here). B.H. Mayer and F&B used only zinc for their own marked KM badge production and they used setups different from that seen on the Schickle design products.

Someone could indeed have acquired Schickle leftover stock and hardware and imitated their finishing style but that is purely speculative. We do know that when announcing Schickle's banning from 3rd Reich award production in "Uniformen-Markt" on July 1, 1941 the Präsidialkanzlei added:

"Wer Anfertigungen der genannten Art weiterhin von der Firma Schickle bezieht, macht sich strafbar."

"Whoever continues to receive further manufactured goods of the mentioned type from the firm of Schickle will themselves be liable."

Since Schickle's subsequent sell-off of leftover stock required the supervision and approval from the LDO, it would seem less likely that others would attempt to emulate Schickle's methods in award production and assembly (during wartime anyway).

At any rate, whether completed by Schickle or by a third party, the Schickle design zincers appear to use a light coloured Feinzink, and not the dark alloys seen in later wartime. The Type 3 zincers are divided into four sub-types based on reverse setup variation.

[Norm F]

Type 3.1

Type 3: zinc, solid

3.1: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, classic round-topped stamped sheet metal catch

The first example here has undergone repairs/reattachment of the hardware. The second example is an anomaly in that the hinge block is attached in an inverted position.
Note that in both cases the catch is attached to the zinc badge without using a base plate. Later, it was uncommon for makers to attach catches directly to zinc without the use of a base plate (unless set within a recess in the planchet).

[Norm F]

Type 3.2

Type 3: zinc, solid

3.2: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, "P-shaped" stamped sheet metal catch

This is the same setup as the more common Tombak Type 2.4.

[Norm F]

Type 3.3

Type 3: zinc, solid

3.3: coke bottle-shaped pin, hollow barrel hinge; classic round-topped stamped sheet metal catch

This variant introduces the hollow barrel hinge. The same setup including the round-topped catch can rarely be found on the marked Schickle EK1.

Note the light colour of the high quality Feinzink on the exposed areas.

[Norm F]

Type 3.4

Type 3: zinc, solid

3.4: coke bottle-shaped pin, hollow barrel hinge; "P-shaped" stamped sheet metal catch

The final type combines the hollow barrel hinge with the stock "P-shaped" catch, again without use of a base plate.

This is a common setup used by Schickle on the EK1.

[Norm F]

Type 1: Tombak, hollow

round-wire main pin, wide sheet metal hinge without flanges, rounded stamped sheet metal catch

Type 2: Tombak, solid

2.1: round-wire main pin, wide sheet metal hinge without flanges, classic round-topped stamped sheet metal catch
2.2: coke bottle-shaped pin, vertically mounted block hinge, spiral stamped sheet metal catch
2.3: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, round-wire catch with flattened base
2.4: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, "P-shaped" stamped sheet metal catch

2.4.1 - solid swastika
2.4.2 - three cut-out arms on swastika
2.4.3 - three cut-out arms on swastika, pin stamped "L/18" by B.H. Mayer
2.4.4 - four cut-out arms on swastika
2.4.5 - four cut-out arms on swastika, pin stamped "L/52" by C.F. Zimmermann

Type 3: zinc, solid

3.1: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, classic round-topped stamped sheet metal catch
3.2: coke bottle-shaped pin, prone block hinge, "P-shaped" stamped sheet metal catch
3.3: coke bottle-shaped pin, hollow barrel hinge; classic round-topped stamped sheet metal catch
3.4: coke bottle-shaped pin, hollow barrel hinge; "P-shaped" stamped sheet metal catch

So there you have it. One obverse design and 13 variations in hardware and hand finishing, grouped into three basic types. Happy collecting!

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

Hi Norm,
Just great timeline thread! As always Very helpful. Thanks a lot!
Cheers,
Hubert

[Thomas Durante]

Nice work Norm. Well thought out and very nicely illustrated, I follow your thinking exactly and you are exactly right, these are all Schickle's, even the zinc ones in my opinion.

Tom

[Darrell]

I agree nice presentation

[RichardT]

Great job Norm.

Richard

[John_W.]

Great job! Many thanks for sharing!

[Jeff V]

I have to admit as an early skeptic on this Schickle theory that my opinion has changed. Congrats to Norm on a very impressive presentation in this thread. Well done and thanks!
best wishes,
jeff

[Andreas Klein]

It has been previously supposed that Schickle could not have made the zinc version having been disbarred in mid-1941, but there is no true basis for this assumption since it's clear zinc was in use in 1941 by S.H.u.Co. and that Shickle was working in zinc already in the cores of his L/15 EKs (attached here). B.H. Mayer and F&B used only zinc for their own marked KM badge production and they used setups different from that seen on the Schickle design products.

Hi Norm,

this is a fact ... according to Uniformen Markt Zinc was introduced around 1942 in mass production. The same is said in the letters between Steinhauer & Lück and Wissmann about the IAB.

You can't take an zinc iron cross core as evidence that Schickle was using zinc at the beginning of the war. Using zinc cores for the iron cross was a illegal behaviour and strictly forbidden - ask Dietrich about that subject.

Yes there are zinc made IABs marked "SHuCo. 41" but a start of mass production with in Dezember 1941 ist still to late for Schickle.

Have you ever seen a zinc made combat badge marked L/15?