L/58 S-Boot Abzeichen - good?

[Silesien]

The only Umlauf I dealt with way back then was Ludwig Umlauf. He always wanted me to use U.S. commemorative stamps on my envelopes as he collected stamps. Also: the exchange-rate price on my old 1973 Souval Invoices for the S-Boats & Minesweepers badges @ DM 27.10 & Os 190, was $10.83 each, & not $20.oo each.

[Norm F]

The only Umlauf I dealt with way back then was Ludwig Umlauf. He always wanted me to use U.S. commemorative stamps on my envelopes as he collected stamps. Also: the exchange-rate price on my old 1973 Souval Invoices for the S-Boats & Minesweepers badges @ DM 27.10 & Os 190, was $10.83 each, & not $20.oo each.

Thanks for that info Silesien. I think the exchange rate calculator I used from the internet was converting the value into today's dollars, i.e. $10 in 1973 had the buying power of $20 today.

BTW, if you bought S-Boats and Minesweepers back then could you please tell us what sort of product you received?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Silesien]

type pf product ?? It's been 40 yrs but; the same looking badge as posted. The quality differed from one item to the next. Some of their items were nice appearing; others were crappy and/or cheezy in my opinion. Ones I recall had the typical catch as seen in post #2. The person whacking the L/58 onto the badges put it on as he felt like it; even, crooked, sideways, centered, by the edge, etc. Their enamel work was outstanding.

[Norm F]

type pf product ?? It's been 40 yrs but; the same looking badge as posted. The quality differed from one item to the next. Some of their items were nice appearing; others were crappy and/or cheezy in my opinion. Ones I recall had the typical catch as seen in post #2. The person whacking the L/58 onto the badges put it on as he felt like it; even, crooked, sideways, centered, by the edge, etc. Their enamel work was outstanding.

Thanks again Silesien. It's great to have an eye witness account. I would suspect their stock even at that late date would include wartime leftovers (some refinished) as well as post-war assembly badges and new production from the 1960's and 1970's. That would seem to fit with your description of a range in quality - perhaps their 1960's production with better finish and 1970's production with matte golden "paint-like" finish appearing more "cheezy" as you put it? But I don't want to put words in your mouth. Perhaps you could comment as well on the badges in this post?:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...10#post6104010

Best regards,
---Norm

[Silesien]

I can tell you that at the time 1970s - 1980's they had original wartime tinnies left over, & many original Driver's badges still in their envelopes ( which at the time was a very low priority thing & slow to sell at shows.) I never paid all that much attention at the time to a lot of the details you are speaking of,, such as if they were using some wartime leftovers w/postwar assembly etc., as in my mind they were just all repros anyway,

[steve owens]

In My Opinion If A Badge Is After 1945 Then Its Not Original.

[Norm F]

In My Opinion If A Badge Is After 1945 Then Its Not Original.

Hi Steve,

Yes, obviously nobody would dispute that, but it's not that simple to sort out. A lot of Souval products were actually made in wartime and then leftover at the end of war, and continued to be available and sold by Souval/Umlauf for decades. These "wartime compatible" badges are still collectible to those with an interest in wartime badges but the waters may be muddied further by "wartime compatible" badges assembled with all wartime leftovers in the early post-war days. This is the dilemma - one doesn't want to "throw out the baby with the bath water". Furthermore these were often refinished by Souval later to make them look more desirable -- an area that's good to study further.

So we have a mixture of:
1) wartime produced untouched badges
2) wartime compatible construction badges from the early post-war days potentially indistinguishable from (1)
3) wartime produced and wartime-compatible badges refinished by Souval later post-war
4) hybrid badges combining leftover planchets with post-war hardware
5) completely post-war production with post-war hardware

Categories (4) and (5) are easily recognizable, and category (3) is potentially recognizable with the detective work in our recent threads on Souval finish. Categories (1) and (2) will forever be indistinguishable from each other aside from individual examples with good provenance. Nobody knows the relative proportions of (1) and (2) in that pool of "wartime compatible" badges, but those are generally the ones wartime collectors still want in their collection albeit usually at lower prices than other makers (with some exceptions for less common variants and those with provenance). The rest of them are still of interest to Souval collectors and collectors of post-war memorabilia and have less market value.

Best regards,
---Norm

[steve owens]

Hi Norm.
Many Many Thanks For Your Help.
Steve.