Destroyer badge

[gtbpappy]

Hello another I picked up from John- any ideas on the maker? Thanks!!

[gtbpappy]

Rear

[Norm F]

Hi gtbpappy,

It's a typical zinc Destroyer of the unknown "flatback" maker. If you run a forum search on "flatback" you'll find weeks of reading including this thread:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=flatback

Best regards,
---Norm

[Bono]

Not mint but original Destroyer badge!
Congrats

Regards, Bono

[Norm F]

Not mint but original Destroyer badge!
Congrats

Regards, Bono

I think we can only say "original flatback" rather than "original Destroyer badge". In my view the flatback KM badges should be viewed with the same skepticism as Souval badges or late S&L zincers - some may be wartime but others may be post-war. It's just that even less is known about them than about Souval badges since they're unmarked. They're not uncommon and the quality is variable.

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

I agree, it's "flatback" Destroyer, no proof these were made wartime so far.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Bono]

I think we can only say "original flatback" rather than "original Destroyer badge". In my view the flatback KM badges should be viewed with the same skepticism as Souval badges or late S&L zincers - some may be wartime but others may be post-war. It's just that even less is known about them than about Souval badges since they're unmarked. They're not uncommon and the quality is variable.

Best regards,
---Norm

Sorry Norm and Hubert for my subjective point of view. My answer should have some more sentences. As we know the same opinion is with flatback anti partisan badge. We can find collectors who likes this type of badges but as we know its rather hard theme of discussion.

Regards, Bono.

[Norm F]

Sorry Norm and Hubert for my subjective point of view. My answer should have some more sentences. As we know the same opinion is with flatback anti partisan badge. We can find collectors who likes this type of badges but as we know its rather hard theme of discussion.

Regards, Bono.

Hi Bono.

When you say "flatback anti-partisan badge" I assume you mean the S&L zincers? If so, those aren't by the same maker as the flatback KM badges, but I agree that there is a similar and parallel ongoing discussion regarding S&L's late war zinc badges with regards to the difficulty in discerning late wartime from the early post-war "souvenir market" in Lüdenscheid.

As mentioned in previous discussions, it could well turn out that the "flatback" maker (whether it's Rettenmaier or not), just like S&L and Souval, was a late war zinc producer who continued on in the post-war period for the G.I. souvenir market. It's interesting to note that Rettenmaier's business (like S&L and Souval) continued on after the war.

It's also always been interesting to me that there's quite a wide spectrum of quality seen in S&L's late zincers, as in the later Souval production and also quite clearly in the flatback badges and don't seem to turn up with any regularity in German vet groupings, although occasionally in U.S. vet collections. In contrast, the production qualities of zinc RK and both the "unmarked AS" Minesweeper are extremely consistent, and these are badges that turn up in German vet groupings. The variable quality in production (some of which is quite crude) is potentially another symptom of post-war practice by the flatback maker.

Because of all this, to me, late war S&L zincers, Souval badges without provenance and flatbacks will always be the "poorer cousins" of the combat badges. It doesn't mean they're not collectible, just that they will never be on par in value with "exclusively wartime" production badges like Schwerin, Juncker, Assmann, Schickle, F&B, RK, AS, etc. They still have a place in any "complete collection" of course since S&L and Souval were award manufacturers during wartime as well and there's a good chance also the flatback maker in the beginning.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Bono]

Because of all this, to me, late war S&L zincers, Souval badges without provenance and flatbacks will always be the "poorer cousins" of the combat badges. It doesn't mean they're not collectible, just that they will never be on par in value with "exclusively wartime" production badges like Schwerin, Juncker, Assmann, Schickle, F&B, RK, AS, etc. They still have a place in any "complete collection" of course since S&L and Souval were award manufacturers during wartime as well and there's a good chance also the flatback maker in the beginning.

Best regards,
---Norm

Hi Norm,
Very wise sentences. I support Your opinion.
With apb I mean s&l maker of course.

Thanks, Bono