marked minesweeper

[eraser]

I need some help on this maker mark it's not standard for the 65. After a forum search i found a u-boat with the same style of marking. Is this a original piece and if so is it more rare tehn other one's

[Adrian]

It's an original Deumer wrongly marked for Klein & Quenzer.

[eraser]

So the pin could be replaced or just added a mark to try to add value

[JAndrew]

Why some badges were marked this way is a guess but I don't think many people would consider this a replaced pin as other KM badges have the same spurious "65". Here is a link to a u-boat badge discusion. Go to the fifth post:

U-boot badge ? opinions

If you have a problem withthe link it can be found by doing a search for " 65 u boat " here.

It is intersting that this shows up on a Deumer MS badge and are usually seen only on what is now to be believed is the S&L made u-boat badges (as far as I know).

An attempt to add value to unmarked badges is certainly a believable option. If I am not mistaken there is also a discussion of these 65 marked badges in Weber and Skora's book in the u-boat badge section.

As far as value, to me it is a good period badge and I don't think the number detracts from the value as long as you realize and are honest with others if you sell it that this is not a K and Q made piece.

Regards,
JAndrew

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

I agree with JAndrew that this is the original pin on this original zinc Deumer Minesweeper badge (which has been discussed before somewhere). The only questions are when and why the mark was stamped into the pin.

This same mark has shown up on 4 different products so far, none of which are actually associated with Klein & Quenzer (the wartime firm assigned the PK Lieferant number 65). These products are:

1) The S&L zinc U-Boat
2) The "5-feather" unknown maker zinc U-Boat
3) This Deumer zinc Minesweeper
4) An unknown maker Ostvolk 1st Class

I suspect these are all late war (or early post-war) Lüduenscheid products but can't say for sure in all cases. Although possible theories are an inspection mark or a distributor's mark of some kind, I have trouble with that theory since it doesn't make sense to use a mark that can be mistaken for a PK Lieferant number. I also find it suspicious that the mark is scripted in a way that is reminiscent of the curly font of K&Q's PK number (although clearly more italicized and not K&Q's number).

Although I can't prove anything, my gut feeling is this is a handful of Lüdenscheid leftover products stamped in an entrepreneurial spirit in the post-war period.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Here's the Ostvolk medal with this "65" mark.

[Norm F]

Here's the "5-feather" U-boat with this mark.

[Norm F]

And here's the S&L U-Boat with this mark. You also see here a true K&Q "65" mark from an EK1 for comparison in the lower left.

[Mark McShane]

Hasn't there been one of these badges posted before? Can't find it at the moment.

[Norm F]

Hasn't there been one of these badges posted before? Can't find it at the moment.

Hi Mark,

It's the same badge originally from John T.'s website, and Hubert posted it before here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...97#post5614597

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

Thanks for looking all this up Norm.

John

[eraser]

I missed that thread indeed the same badge. Thanks all for the reply leanred some more today.
Gues we will never know still odd that the mark only pop up on 4 different badge's

[all1knew]

Hello all,

Can't comment on the mark but the badge is completely authentic nonetheless.

William Kramer