Hilfskreuzer / Auxiliary Cruiser Badge by Souval - fake?

[stdub]

Hello guys,

I assume this one is not good. Am I right?

Best regards,

Joerg

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[AndyC]

Well this one looks like a prewar Souval to me but wait for more inputs, i am not 100% sure on this one.


Andy

[BubbaZ]

This one stinks Staegemeir on a mile...
It looks like improved version of Hero's fake that I have seen before.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Martin W]

This one stinks Staegemeir on a mile...
It looks like improved version of Hero's fake that I have seen before.
Cheers,
Hubert

I am inclined to agree with you Hubert.

Well spotted.The gilding and the "blueing" on the reverse are typical of Staegemeir Kriegsmarine copies.Now,if this a Staegemeir and like you i think it is,he has made some improvements,especially on the hinge.

Here is one of his other previous RS examples where the hinge is a definate giveaway.On the badge illustrated above he has definately made an attempt to get the hinge to match those seen on originals.
The finish on the example shown below is also very similar to that shown in the thread starter.


Regards,Martin.

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

This is a tough call. It's not the typical recognized Staegemeir fake since this one has outlines and hardware more like original Souvals, but the finish is very similar to the Staegemeir finish.

Having said that, the finish is possibly a match to the one shown in black & white in 1966 in the journal "Medal Collector". This excerpt was kindly provided previously by Peter J. and shows a "genuine" Souval at the top and a fake below. It's unclear from Herr Umlauf's description whether that's a Souval made in 1966 or leftover wartime stock, or possibly leftover wartime stock finished in 1966?

Anyway, this could be a post-war Souval. If it's a Staegemeir then he's really upped his game (which is also possible).

Could you show some views of the reverse and hardware with the pin up as well?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Patrick W]

I think the badge that started this thread is a mint wartime original- best I have seen by RS ever I'm sure. I like the finish and bubbling on the globe and the catch is absolutley typical of RS wartime production.

[Norm F]

I think the badge that started this thread is a mint wartime original- best I have seen by RS ever I'm sure. I like the finish and bubbling on the globe and the catch is absolutley typical of RS wartime production.

Hi Patrick,

Well, I agree the construction and hardware are "wartime compatible" but to me the finish seems more likely post-war, the same type they were shipping in 1966. I think Martin's examples (posted previously and I'll have to find them) are more typical of wartime finish. But I certainly accept that there will always be doubt and subjectivity on this topic. That slippery Souval always keeps us guessing when it comes to the first 20 years after the war before the quality deteriorated and the hardware changed.

Best regard,
---Norm

[JAndrew]

In comparing this to my other Souval awards I would be very dubious of this piece. The surface of it has a fine pitted, almost sandblasted look to it that I really do not like. All of mine are either smooth or with fine horizontal scratches. Also, the shade of gold on the original wartime Souvals I am comfortable with has more of a rose gold tone and not the bright gold seen here. Also the catches seem to have a rounder, more question mark like profile than what I am seeing, I would pass on it but then I have been known to pass on good badges that I didn't feel comfortable with. But I have never regretted that either.
JAndrew

[Norm F]

Found Martin's worn example with gilt reverse.

[Martin W]

Thanks Norm.

The badges that i consider to be period originals by Souval do have a gilded reverse.

The example you have shown above does reveal faint traces of the reverse gilding.

Original RS badges also had gilded bow waves that i have shown below on another RS badge i have in my collection and again we can see traces of gilding on the reverse on this piece.

Traces of gilding on the bow waves can also be seen on the badge that Norm posted above.

Regards,Martin.

[Norm F]

Comparison to the example offered by Souval in 1966. Differences in the hand trimming of the internal cutouts but very similar looking finish?

[Norm F]

Here are a couple of obvious later post-war "L/58" Souval products just to show the quality of finish and textures of the reverse.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Now this is interesting. Here's a nice post-war "L/58" Souval Blockade Breaker badge (actually based on S&L's design rather than Souval's own R.S. marked design) and a comparison to the finish on the Hilfskreuzer. I guess I rest my case.

Best regards,
---Norm

[stdub]

Interesting discussion! Thanks for your input guys!

Do you need any more photos?

Best regards,

Joerg