A painted Minensuchabzeichen

[juoneen]

It doesnt matter if it is for sale or not, although its a point well understood, but because someone agrees, does not make that person have common sense by any means especially when they miss all the clues in the photos, dont you guys watch serlock holmes where you live???, but more common sense has been exuded from the other comments to the negative but have been clearly ignored , as to what the reasons why are they stated that viewpoint, as they were correct due to those clues so obvious. I can tell you the flag is armenian,likely taken in armenia, camera is modern, bottle is capped with plastic not used in ww2, it is clearly posed, and the paper it is printed on IMO is not peroiod. If you want opinions , that is what you will get, and someone agreeing , if you really dont know, which I think you do, and is likely a forum trap , but you have failed to agree with any dissenters , even with reason viable, so that is telling on you, and as far as I am concerned, these are both staged , or taken at a location where the art , could have been done years ago, but taken in that location in modern times at best , if in any way even close to having anything in this set to be anything old. But , I doubt even that stretch of the imagination , as that is at best the only speculation I can salvage that would remotely be possible but still unlikely. German artists , even on vehicles or who attempt to draw something on a wall , have artistic quality always seem to draw things that are appealing to the eye , This work is of a 4th grade art ability, and is lacking in eye appeal ,and starting out artists who are not good at art, and it is obvious whomever did this artistic rendition of the badge , not only wasnt close in details ,wouldnt bother if they would be hucked by their friends if done poorly as this artwork appears to me to be and extremely poorly at that . I would paint over the wall, and try again with a projected duplicator to get it right for your next experiment, and use better paper, and be careful to remove all modern devices from the photo before posting it next time. I will say there were some amusing anecdotes added to this entertaining thread though, but couldnt be remotely period in any stretch of the imagination. BUT ...keep em comin. Genatzt!

[Adrian]

I'm very curious how members can see a plastic capped bottle without seeing a glass bottle minus the cork or stopper. I have no idea how the object on the table can be seen as a modern digital camera from these images. It could be a camera or a radio or an ornate ashtray. You simply can't tell.

The flag could be Armenian or it might not be but why, if this photo is staged would the re-enactors stick an Armenian flag under the photo of Hitler, it makes no sense. The flag could be anything and could mean anything.

The modern haircut idea is strange as in both photos the person is wearing a hat.

The images are period and are not modern staged photos. Everything about them points to this.

It's amusing to see that unusual or different images are fake simply because they're different.

People look too hard sometimes.

[Eric JB]

I have no problems with those two photos.

Just two funny staged photos, one guy in a pose as if he is writing a letter and smoking a pipe, while the other poses as if he is making a painting on the wall.

I do remember those photos from Kindergarten where I am standing in front of a nearly finished painting with a paint-brush in my hand......where every child, boys and girls of my class did pose in front of that exact same painting, all holding that same brush, while none of us did make a single paint-stroke on that canvas at all.

All I see is two German sailors, Hitler on the wall, a type of signal flag under him, and a painting of a Minensuchabzeichen and a Deutsche Ankertau-Seemine mit Kontaktzündern.

Best regards

Eric-Jan

[Maurice]

juoneen,

I did not ask for any opinions. Why do you say I did? Can you show me where's that stated?

Your response shows the typical way which seems to be normal among some members here, which is the same reason why many people have left, and will leave. Perhaps something to think about.

Yes, we have Sherlock Holmes, NCIS, and all other alike here. I see them sometimes, but it seems you like to watch them preferably all day long. Perhaps you can advise me which DVD box to buy, should it not be on TV anymore?

And on top of that you mention I painted it myself, it doesn't get any stranger. Bold accusation to make, I hope you can also back this up by facts? Unlike many people here who seem to need a nickname on fora, I use my real name, because there is nothing to hide. I would not make my own photos, with all the effort necessary to stage them and present them here as the real deal just for fun. But, juoneen Sherlock has already the answer; I faked it myself! An other option would perhaps be the way it just is - I just bought it and showed them here.
I think you would be a great asset to the world of crime fighters, if you have not already done so I would certainly consider a career in that direction. You will be welcomed with open arms with an attitude like that and make a swift career.

Reasons for the photo being real in my opinion;

- I have seen many of such paintings myself, mostly in bunkers, some in buildings and barracks. Others I found in books. I am aware of what's possible, and what is not. Such paintings are not very uncommon. Soldiers have a lot of time on hand and like to decorate their living quarters.

- Who in their right mind would fake such a photo and leave anything in that is modern? Would be very silly, don't you think?
You can not claim to be the aware of all the items they had back then, by comparing them with modern day items. The flag - it shows a lack of knowledge about the maritime world to think about a country right away. Are they the only instituation to use flags? It is probably an ordinary signal flag, as used in all navies world wide for decades. The thing you assume with your 2012 eyes to be an camera is more likely to be an ashtray.

- If it was put in scene, which Kriegsmarine re-enactment group made it? I wonder why did we not see more photos of that specific emblem? All that work and then selling it for € 15 on the German Ebay? I would make a big fuzz if I was a faker - they should appear in a book at least.

- the only thing which is staged is that the paint was probably not wet when the photo was taken. Not very strange at all, the artist probably was requested to do so by his comrades afterwards.

- I wonder where the people responding have their knowledge about bottles and bottlefasteners from? How can you tell this was not a period cap? Are you aware of all types of liquids sold here in Europe during the last century? I assume most people will have just basic knowledge and you should not make assumptions based on that. There are studies at the university to determine the age of bottles and other artefacts. It takes a lot more then saying 'I don't know that so it must be faked'.

- plucking eyebrows? Take a better look on all the thousands of soldiers photos available and you will find not all men have one eyebrow which grows above both eyes. In fact, most of them haven't. And yes, tweezers existed also back then.

- Then the photopaper - it shows wrinkles and spots, like all other period prints. It has the correct markings, some stains and dirt. Yet this seems not enough for the non-believers.

Please try to focus on the real fakes out there, which can be already challenging enough. Don't come to me with bogus arguments based on little knowledge and a suspicous mind. Focus your negative energy on matters really worth it.

[John R.]

At this point all future posters to this thread need to be very careful in how they argue their positions. No lines have been crossed yet, but if they do, the thread will be cleaned up and if necessary, infractions given.

This is a warning, so please take it under consideration since no further warnings will be given.

John

[John R.]

To get this thread back on track, I think the flag in the photo could be the KM signal flag "Emil".

John

[Stepdale]

Maurice,
The photos look perfectly fine to me as far as originality. The bottle looks period, and I have no clue what anyone is saying about the bottle top as it looks to me as if it isn't even present. The objects next to the sailor appear to be an ashtray and possibly a flashlight, so no idea why anyone would think it was a transistor radio. No clue on the flag, but agree it's most likely a signal flag.

I apologize for your poor treatment here on the forum. It's sad that some people can't seem to post their evaluations in a civil manner. I've only suffered from it once on this forum, but I've seen it happen to others many times. Luckily it's only a small minority that behave this way.
Dale

[CWP]

Definitely original photos, no question in my mind. The object on the table that some have labeled a "camera" is in fact a flashlight. Thanks for sharing these intersting images.

[Maurice]

Thanks folks!

Kind regards,

Maurice

[Snni]

juoneen,

I did not ask for any opinions. Why do you say I did? Can you show me where's that stated?

Your response shows the typical way which seems to be normal among some members here, which is the same reason why many people have left, and will leave. Perhaps something to think about.

Yes, we have Sherlock Holmes, NCIS, and all other alike here. I see them sometimes, but it seems you like to watch them preferably all day long. Perhaps you can advise me which DVD box to buy, should it not be on TV anymore?

And on top of that you mention I painted it myself, it doesn't get any stranger. Bold accusation to make, I hope you can also back this up by facts? Unlike many people here who seem to need a nickname on fora, I use my real name, because there is nothing to hide. I would not make my own photos, with all the effort necessary to stage them and present them here as the real deal just for fun. But, juoneen Sherlock has already the answer; I faked it myself! An other option would perhaps be the way it just is - I just bought it and showed them here.
I think you would be a great asset to the world of crime fighters, if you have not already done so I would certainly consider a career in that direction. You will be welcomed with open arms with an attitude like that and make a swift career.

Reasons for the photo being real in my opinion;

- I have seen many of such paintings myself, mostly in bunkers, some in buildings and barracks. Others I found in books. I am aware of what's possible, and what is not. Such paintings are not very uncommon. Soldiers have a lot of time on hand and like to decorate their living quarters.

- Who in their right mind would fake such a photo and leave anything in that is modern? Would be very silly, don't you think?
You can not claim to be the aware of all the items they had back then, by comparing them with modern day items. The flag - it shows a lack of knowledge about the maritime world to think about a country right away. Are they the only instituation to use flags? It is probably an ordinary signal flag, as used in all navies world wide for decades. The thing you assume with your 2012 eyes to be an camera is more likely to be an ashtray.

- If it was put in scene, which Kriegsmarine re-enactment group made it? I wonder why did we not see more photos of that specific emblem? All that work and then selling it for € 15 on the German Ebay? I would make a big fuzz if I was a faker - they should appear in a book at least.

- the only thing which is staged is that the paint was probably not wet when the photo was taken. Not very strange at all, the artist probably was requested to do so by his comrades afterwards.

- I wonder where the people responding have their knowledge about bottles and bottlefasteners from? How can you tell this was not a period cap? Are you aware of all types of liquids sold here in Europe during the last century? I assume most people will have just basic knowledge and you should not make assumptions based on that. There are studies at the university to determine the age of bottles and other artefacts. It takes a lot more then saying 'I don't know that so it must be faked'.

- plucking eyebrows? Take a better look on all the thousands of soldiers photos available and you will find not all men have one eyebrow which grows above both eyes. In fact, most of them haven't. And yes, tweezers existed also back then.

- Then the photopaper - it shows wrinkles and spots, like all other period prints. It has the correct markings, some stains and dirt. Yet this seems not enough for the non-believers.

Please try to focus on the real fakes out there, which can be already challenging enough. Don't come to me with bogus arguments based on little knowledge and a suspicous mind. Focus your negative energy on matters really worth it.