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**John T** · 07-23-2004, 10:04 PM

That one is a tough call...some might not like the "stiff paper"...to me from the pix it looks like that style...also the lettering on the back is crude...but who knows..they could have dont it that way also...tough one,

John

**hagwalther** · 07-23-2004, 10:25 PM

Hi John,

Yes, this is a tough one.

I've put a 'black light' on it an no flouressing and looked at the printing under an eye glass. Both the blank and the red ink seems to have spread a little - the black more so.

Also, the paper is quite thin really and nothing like those 'kraft' paper EKII packets that are about.

My gut feeling is that it is good but if anyone knows for certain if it is fake I will stand corrected. Has any one seen this type of packet with these markings before?

If there are a lot of them about then one would tend to err to the reproduction side of the argument.

Regards ...

Originally posted by militarybuyer

That one is a tough call...some might not like the "stiff paper"...to me from the pix it looks like that style...also the lettering on the back is crude...but who knows..they could have dont it that way also...tough one,

John

**Tom Yanacek** · 07-23-2004, 11:25 PM

Hello hagwalther,

I do not like this issue envelope. I think John is right when he said that this paper has a stiff feel that just does not compare well to known original envelopes. I do not like the rubber stamped "Minensuchboot Abzeichen" designation on the front in red ink, and I think the quality control statement on the reverse is too sloppy. I have seen other envelopes of what I believe to be the same type of paper, some with the LDO on the front and some with nothing on the front except for a rubber stamped, medal designation in red ink. I have always had doubts about them. I could be totally wrong about this, but I do not think any of them are real. I once purchased a Gold Driver's Badge with an issue envelope from Manion's Auction House. The envelope was plain on the front except for a rubber stamped "Kraftfahrbewärungsabzeichen Gold" in red ink.
The reverse of the envelope did not have a quality control statement, but did have the maker name 'Rudolf Souval Wien VII' on it. This envelope was very crude. It did not look, feel, or smell right. The badge itself was also a piece of crap. It wasn't steel or zinc, but was some weird looking flimsy alloy. The backing plate looked like it was cut with tin snips.
Best regards! Tom

**MH184** · 07-24-2004, 03:48 PM

Hello All,

Ummm this is a tough one, as there are genuine examples along these lines.....as indeed there are fake of the same nature and set up; genuine packets also mucked around with i.e of the LDO designatiion.

My Kiwi friend,

Our Tom has a bloody good eye for packets and I value his opinion as I do Allan and Ricky V.

These are sods to determine, as I mentioned there ARE genuine packets just like this !!! The so called thought of and called pre 1945 packets should have the exact traits of course of a 'bog' standard LDO packet, if the pink ink as it should look under a black light illuminates rather than looking 'dull' consider the designation as fake ! That is not always is the packet fake...........it's a mix match.

Generaly the packet looks okayish (with reservation to a degree), I'd have to have in in my paws for a 101% opinion.........give me a year or two and I'll be over your way to see some relatives, we'll have to meet up; failing that just e mail me and give me you phone number and I'll ring you and then you can blacklight it under 'supervision' and I'll tell you over the phone what to look for etc.

If I'm not around, not that I'm a ruddy expert.......you can take Tom's word, Ricky V and Allan's over mine any day of the week....these guy's know there packets

And not to forget Kokstok, whom has a great knowledge on packets too.

Rick has taught me all I know !

Feel free to e mail me any time, I'll only be able to get back to you though at UK weekends for the next year.

Kind regards,

Marcus

**Tom Yanacek** · 07-24-2004, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by Marcus. H

Hello All,

Ummm this is a tough one, as there are genuine examples along these lines.....as indeed there are fake of the same nature and set up; genuine packets also mucked around with i.e of the LDO designatiion.Marcus

Hello to all,
Marcus makes a very good point about some of these envelopes and I agree with this. Some of these envelopes are real but have been "mucked up" by the enhancement of a post war applied, rubber stamped medal designation.
This type of thing ruins the packet, making it worthless in my opinion. I would not buy one of these and would only take one if it came with an original medal and at no additional cost.

Originally posted by Marcus. H

If I'm not around, not that I'm a ruddy expert.......you can take Tom's word, Ricky V and Allan's over mine any day of the week....these guy's know there packets

And not to forget Kokstok, whom has a great knowledge on packets too.Marcus

Hello Marcus,
Thank you for the vote of confidence, but I do not consider myself an expert in anything. I can only offer my honest opinion based on my own experiences. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I might be totally wrong about the packet posted by hagwalther. My opinion is just that, and therefore it should not hold any additional value.
Best regards! Tom
PS I think you are the expert Marcus!

**hagwalther** · 07-24-2004, 07:42 PM

Marcus, Tyanacek.

Thanks for the input.

Regardless of the outcome I consider this to be a good thread and most enjoyable.

Regards ...

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