silver u-boot clasp

[romulada]

Hello, everybody, what do you think about silver u.boat clasp in E-stand?
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=580697
I think, that it is a copy - not bad quality, but many signs shows differences from original piece. The cannon is badly stamped, oval hollow on the back is non centered, lettering has little bid different shape, surface of the badge is so smooth on the front side and scratched on the back side. I am wrong?
Thank you for your opinion!

[ChrisH]

yes, you are wrong

here is other one , 1.pattern from my collection ....... look of the center backside and details in lettering .... ectt

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ighlight=clasp

[romulada]

yes, you are wrong

here is other one , 1.pattern from my collection ....... look of the center backside and details in lettering .... ectt

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ighlight=clasp

It is only my opinion. It is very unusual, that the silver finish is smooth and shiny, but once more - it is only my opinion!

[Jody]

U-boat Clasp

Hello,
The clasp looks fine to me. I wish I had it.

Regards,
Jody

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

I like it too. Here's the clasp from the e-stand compared to a late Schwerin zinc Minesweeper. I think that smooth shiny finish on the obverse is typical of Schwerin's late zinc production in Berlin before outsourcing the the 2nd pattern production to Gablonz.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Tossing in a few more of the photos of the e-stand clasp to make the thread more useful in the future.

[Norm F]

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[Norm F]

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[Norm F]

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[Norm F]

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[Gensui]

Gents,
First of all, I am unable to do judge about the authenticity of this clasp. There is a point, which draws my attention and I’m wondering about the intact lettering of the back side of “ENTW”.
During the past time, I saw three authentic clasps (member’s owned), which shows not only slight difference on the back side, but some remaining tin solder. Shortly, I received some comments from collectors and they provided me some photos, where the same “defect” as on the veterans clasps are visible. (As I don’t own these clasps, I don’t want to show the complete one)
It seems like the “T” in “ENTW” is slightly higher and mostly defect (sometimes the “E” in ENTW as well). I thought that this is a good indication for a good clasp. Maybe because of this, copied clasps had only the letters “N” and “W”, while missing the “E” and the “T”?
I remember a silver clasp on WAF e-stand with the same intact/complete lettering on the back side (this clasp can be found now on a different e-auction).
From production point of view, u-boat clasps are somehow ugly. But as the zinc-made u-boat clasp were one of the latest Kriegsmarine badges, irregularities production and tin solder may be not unusual. And I don’t know if above mentioned points are good indications to detect any fakes. But at least, some points which I’m considering about and which I would like to share with you.
BR,
Chris

[John R.]

Chris,

You simply cannot pick one letter or almost one anything and draw a conclusion about a badge coming off a production line. For example, the diagonal slash on the reverse of the SB First Pattern S-boat. Usually there, but not always.

Same with SB High Seas Fleet badges. All over the place in regards to the bridge windows.

You must evaluate a badge or clasp by the entire artifact, meaning pin, catch, hinge, letters, front and back. That said, I agree that original first pattern clasps seem to indicate that the "T" to the left is a bit higher than the adjacent letters. The wear on that "T" in original clasps can be accounted for issues with the die that as we know was in the end discarded in favor of the second pattern clasp.

If images/examples are referred to in a thread they are of no use if not posted for evaluation. I find this almost as bad as collectors that condemn items but then refuse to elaborate since they feel it "gives to much to the fakers" or they are reserving such information for their own use, or so they imply.

I have mentioned before that to my knowledge only one example of the first pattern has shown up that is a fake and it is missing the E and T to the left completely, but that is not the only reason it is deemed a fake.

I wish those that feel other first pattern fakes, in bronze or silver, are out there would post the example they think is a fake so we could add them to the database, but so far, I have seen only one, already posted on this forum a couple of times. Just saying they are there does not make it so. Chris, this does not apply to you, you posted what you were talking about.

The clasp we are discussing is a period example IMO.

Thanks for downloading these Norm.

The fake first pattern clasp is attached here, and again, if other collectors have examples that they think are fake, please post them.

John

[ChrisH]

add here a photo from my bronce clasp with full intact "T" too

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[John R.]

Hi Chris,

Another nice clasp IMO.

John

[ChrisH]

Jody , Norm and John ......... many thanks for your proffessionell Expert-Input's