Plaque for the 3rd S-Boat flotilla

[Matteo]

Hi Guys,

even if Kriegsmarine is not my main interest I couldn't resist to buy this plaque, I think (but please correct me if I am wrong!) it is a sort of commemorative plaque for the 3rd E-boat flotilla that operated in the Mediterranean sea.
It is very light, probably made of aluminium and flat.
Was this a proper award? Any idea of its value?
Any further information on the piece is greatly appreciated.

Thanks and cheers,
Matteo :flak_helm

[Lorenzo Brown]

Hi Matteo. Dunno about that one, but it is an interesting looking item. I would agree that it is probably Mediterranean and a commemorative piece.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Matteo, I first saw one of these plaques over 25 years ago in a little collectors/junk shop in Nottingham. The owner refused to sell it to me as he had already sold the item to a another dealer in the city called Mike Long (he is still trading today and is a friend of mine). He sold the item for £5. Mike in turn sold it to Malcolm Fisher of "Regimentals". I saw the plaque on his stall later in the year at Nottingham Arms fair. It was then paired with a photo of a KM Sailor in tropical uniform with E Boat badge and was priced at £70!
So, are these original? I don't honestly know? But the junk/collectors shop was a good source and the plaque was very well made. I would really like to know the origins of these too. I have seen one or two others in recent years at shows.
Cheers, Ade.

[Matteo]

Hi Lorenzo & Adrian,

thanks for your help on this strange item.
After hearing it was for sale from Malcolm Fisher I am a bit worried now about its authenticity
I then had a look at past Regimentals catalogues and they had one identical for sale about six years ago for £225 (so they think it's original )
Anyway to add some info that may be useful for others, it is made of 1.5mm thick aluminium, die struck, and measures 160x106mm. The piece is well made, the borders of the map and of the palm are in slight relief, the paint used is semi-gloss.
I bought this one from a seller in Australia, but I didn't know him before as he doesn't usually sell militaria.

Cheers,
Matteo

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Matteo,

Sorry to be a disbeliever on that one, for me it is just one swaz too many. It would also bother me that more than one are available (as this should not be a mass production item) and I guess all in good shape. But it is nothing more than a very personal opinion.

Cheers, Frank

[mike smith]

3rd. E.Boat flotilla

I would like some history of a non portable E.boat awardin my pocession.I have had this award for some time,but until recently have never seen another.I am hoping some knowledgable person could enlighten me.It is pictured on Fallen Eagle w.site and is for sale at 325 pounds.Iwould be gratefull for some feedback.It is a 3rd e.boat flotilla plaque.
Thanks Mike.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Here is a link that should take you straight to the item in question:

http://www.falleneagle.com/showitem.ihtml?id=1783

I cannot really add any info on your item Mike. But I recall seeing one which "walked" into a junk shop in Nottingham around the late 1970's or very early 1980's. I wanted to buy it very badly, but the owner had already agree to sell it to a local dealer, the late Mike Long. The junk shop man paid ******163;4.50 for it and it came with a rather nice Italian fascist banner. From there it went to Mr Fisher, where it was then "married up" with a photo of the supposed "original" owner in KM tropical uniform and offered for sale at the Nottingham Arms fair.

Over the years I have seen others but have never read any real info behind them.

Cheers, Ade.

[mike smith]

Here is a link that should take you straight to the item in question:

http://www.falleneagle.com/showitem.ihtml?id=1783

I cannot really add any info on your item Mike. But I recall seeing one which "walked" into a junk shop in Nottingham around the late 1970's or very early 1980's. I wanted to buy it very badly, but the owner had already agree to sell it to a local dealer, the late Mike Long. The junk shop man paid £4.50 for it and it came with a rather nice Italian fascist banner. From there it went to Mr Fisher, where it was then "married up" with a photo of the supposed "original" owner in KM tropical uniform and offered for sale at the Nottingham Arms fair.

Over the years I have seen others but have never read any real info behind them.

Cheers, Ade.

Thanks for that input,Ade.The only information i can come up with is that these awards were hung in cabins.They were produced tocommemerate service in the waters of NorthAfria and the med, around europe.I beleive the 3rd U.boat flotilla was disbanded or amalgamated into other flotillas,early in the war.I would like to find out who produced them. regards Mike.

[90th Light]

Hello, I got one of these off the son of a returned serviceman who picked it up in 1945 at the wars end. If you read "Battleground Italy 1943 to 1945" by Franz Kurowski published by Fedorowicz 2003 you will find the history of this unit on pages 265 to 282 or "German E-Boats" by Gordon Williamson published by Osprey 2002, pages 40 to 43. They were the first E-boat unit in Mediterranean and attacked Tobruk in 1942. I have been lead to believe that New Zealand soldiers actually fought an engagement with navel troops dropped off by them. They were definitely an active unit until the end of the war in 1945 although they found it increasingly difficult to have enough boats in the water. A true Afrikakorps naval unit and later the Aegean / Adriatic. When you consider how much E-Boat badges go for these days, 325 UK pounds is probably a good price for a piece of DAK history, provided it is not a reproduction of the real thing.

Hope this helps, Chris

[mike smith]

Hello, I got one of these off the son of a returned serviceman who picked it up in Austria in 1945 at the wars end. If you read "Battleground Italy 1943 to 1945" by Franz Kurowski published by Fedorowicz 2003 you will find the history of this unit on pages 265 to 282 or "German E-Boats" by Gordon Williamson published by Osprey 2002, pages 40 to 43. They were the first E-boat unit in Mediterranean and attacked Tobruk in 1942. I have been lead to believe that New Zealand soldiers actually fought an engagement with navel troops dropped off by them. They were definitely an active unit until the end of the war in 1945 although they found it increasingly difficult to have enough boats in the water. A true Afrikakorps naval unit and later the Aegean / Adriatic. When you consider how much E-Boat badges go for these days, 325 UK pounds is probably a good price for a piece of DAK history, provided it is not a reproduction of the real thing.

Hope this helps, Chris

Thanks for that info.Cris
regards Mike.

[Kondor]

Referenced by Patzwall

Mike!

I remebered another place that I have seen this plaque. Page 279 of volume 5 of Klaus Patzwall's Auszeichnungen der Kriegsmarine. While he doesn't give any further information on the origens of the plaque, he states that the one in the photo is in the H. Weitze collection. The only difference between the one I have and the one in the book is that the one Weitze has is affixed at the top with two nails through the eagles wings and mine has a nail in each corner of the shield.

[mike smith]

Mike!

I remebered another place that I have seen this plaque. Page 279 of volume 5 of Klaus Patzwall's Auszeichnungen der Kriegsmarine. While he doesn't give any further information on the origens of the plaque, he states that the one in the photo is in the H. Weitze collection. The only difference between the one I have and the one in the book is that the one Weitze has is affixed at the top with two nails through the eagles wings and mine has a nail in each corner of the shield.

Thanks for that Kondor,my shield is attached with 2 nails at shield corners,and one below german cross at base of shield.It seems there are slight variations in fixing to wooden base.Iam still trying to send photo,s out but have not mastered yet.
Regards Mike.

[U-Boot Hase]

3th S-boatFlotilla plaque

I know this is not a badge but i still would like to show this nice item...
It's a 16 x 10,5cm aluminium plaque with colored inlay of the 3th Schnellbootflotille in North Africa,you can see this item also in Angolia's book "die kriegsmarine vol.3".
I bought one two years ago in the UK from Malcolm Fisher ,but it was a bit oxydised and had two holes drilled in the eagle wings to hang it up.
Now i found a minty in East Germany on a flea market......
Anyone who knows more about this plaque,please post reply

[Kondor]

3rd Flotilla Plaque

I'm trying to run this to ground for myself and for a British collector who also has one. Two weeks ago I posted a letter to the Chief Mechanic of Kapitan z.S. Albert Mullers (RKT) boat and also to a Bundesmarine Officer who assisted with the burial of Kapitan Muller last year. I haven't received replys yet. I will "tweak" Kapitan Muller's daughter and see if she can make a phone call on our behalf as I picked up one of these from a British dealer at the SOS. Yours is in better condition I might add. Platzwall in his book on Badges of the Kriegsmarine has one of these pictured without any additional information other than crediting Weitze for having it in his collection. It too has two nails in the wings of the eagle. I'll let you know as well when I get the story behind these.

[Jody]

Plaque

Hello,
I must say that sure looks cool. I really love S-boot items and that would look great hanging up.
Regards,
Jody