Opinions needed on U Boat Badges

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks Hubert, Chris, Mike, Martin and Norm. This is proving to be fascinating reading! and I am extremely grateful for the interest shown in this badge. I will attempt to get more pics on Monday.
Thanks,
Peter.

[Norm F]

Here's an older fake of this design previously posted by Lorenzo. Obvious differences in the hand finishing of these and wrong hardware and maker mark of course, but the obverse is excellent and there's been a lot of time for someone to come up with a better version....?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

I know there are lots of differences between the old fakes (right) and this new badge (left), but in addition to the flag sizes I can't help wondering about the straight linearity of the cutout on the right and the larger cutout under the sub, compared with the accepted original Deumers (Weitze example) which all have the more curved outline on the right and the smaller cutouts.

Best regards,
---Norm

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks Norm. Ihave obtained a couple more pics of the obverse of this badge and would be interested to see if this adds some light on the possibility of this being a Deumer. Here are the pics

[Gensui]

I had a look for several times and still confused. Even keeping the points from Norm in mind and listening to my gut instincts I am not able to give any positive feedback.
In “worst case” I would say for myself, safe money and look for less questionable badge.

Just my two cents…
Chris

[Norm F]

I had a look for several times and still confused. Even keeping the points from Norm in mind and listening to my gut instincts I am not able to give any positive feedback.
In “worst case” I would say for myself, safe money and look for less questionable badge.

Just my two cents…
Chris

I agree with Chris. Although this mint obverse looks excellent, still given that this design has been targeted by quality forgers, is an expensive badge and doesn't match the usual ones in the cutouts, it's best to wait for a classic example in my opinion.

Furthermore, in my opinion, this particular design would be the easiest U-boat design to fake given its stylized and simplified aesthetic and very smooth blocky outlines. No doubt the fakers have noticed this as well given the reproductions we've already seen.

Best regards,
---Norm

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks Chris and Norm.
I puzzled a great deal over this one. It didn't help that there were quite a few fakes on sale and so I decided eventually in the light of opinions expressed in the thread, to give it a miss. It went for the very reasonable price of about £100. If it were genuine, then I suppose it would have been a bargain, but if a fake worthless. Idecided to err on the side of caution and would like to thank everyone for their input.
Thanks,
Peter.

[Norm F]

Hi Peter,

Were there any verified genuine badges in that sale?

Best regards,
---Norm

[RichardT]

Another, I'd had for 30+ years. Not the best pictures. I've always been bothered by the "wimpy" pins on some these badges, pretty flimsy to everyday wear.

Richard

[Norm F]

Another, I'd had for 30+ years. Not the best pictures. I've always been bothered by the "wimpy" pins on some these badges, pretty flimsy to everyday wear.

Richard

Hi Richard,

And yet yours is what one would generally accept as the classic Tombak Deumer based on design, cutouts and reverse setup. But presmuably made in low numbers before switching to the more practical setup of the entirely different zinc design.

Best regaards,
---Norm

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks Norm and Richard. I note that yours has the classic Deumer Traits highlighted by Norm.
There were very few, if any, correct TR Badges or medals in this particular sale I'm afraid Norm. Just goes to show how widespread fakery is these days.
Thanks,
Peter.

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

Funny how badges get around. The same odd "Deumer" has appeared on a well-known UK dealer's site, but this time "in its own card case of issue" and for £1250 !

It's further described as being the same type shown in Gordon Williamson's Torpedo Los, but of course the one in Gordon's book is a classic example, not this "variant". It's quite possible he simply didn't notice the discrepancies that have been pointed out in this thread. On the other hand, maybe it is just a one-off variant from Deumer despite the fact that they're a maker with no precedent for variable hand finishing of the cutouts. Matter of opinion and comfort level I suppose.

But when it was originally sold for £100 did it include "its own card case of issue"?

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

Hi Guys,

Funny how badges get around. The same odd "Deumer" has appeared on a well-known UK dealer's site, but this time "in its own card case of issue" and for £1250 !

It's further described as being the same type shown in Gordon Williamson's Torpedo Los, but of course the one in Gordon's book is a classic example, not this "variant". It's quite possible he simply didn't notice the discrepancies that have been pointed out in this thread. On the other hand, maybe it is just a one-off variant from Deumer despite the fact that they're a maker with no precedent for variable hand finishing of the cutouts. Matter of opinion and comfort level I suppose.

But when it was originally sold for £100 did it include "its own card case of issue"?

Best regards,
---Norm

Good spot Norm The most expensive card case of issue I have ever seen

I enclose better images of my early Deumer as promised earlier in this thread.
Cheers,
Hubert

[BubbaZ]

hinge and catch

[BubbaZ]

Closeups of the eagle and reverse setup.
Cheers,
Hubert