HSF with diamonds story-- General-Admiral Otto Schniewind

[romulada]

Hi, everybody,
during browsing on the net I found this story:
http://www.huesken.com/shop/en/krieg...ind-45047.html

What do you think? How many people were awarded 1,2 or nobody?
I red many different opinions about awarding HSF badge with diamonds - but no exact evidence.

boris

[BubbaZ]

Hi Boris, it is a fake and a fantasy history behind it
See Dietrich's comment in this thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=564043
Cheers,
Hubert

[romulada]

Hi, Hubert,
you are probably right, but what I am interested -is the fact - how many HSF with diamonds were awarded and who received it? In Kriegsmarine-awards book is written, that the only one badge with diamonds was awarded, Niemann and the other sources agreed, but sometimes talked about different person(admiral Theodor Krancke), who received this badge. Does it exist any trustworthy evidence?

P.S.: sorry for my bad english!

boris

Hi Boris, it is a fake and a fantasy history behind it
See Dietrich's comment in this thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=564043
Cheers,
Hubert

[BubbaZ]

Does it exist any trustworthy evidence?

Hi Boris,
What do you mean by trustworthy evidence? If you expect to see a document signed by Raeder with the list of diamonds ever presented then you will not find it
I think that comments from previous thread and from this one answer all questions:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=diamonds
Cheers,
Hubert

[AndyC]

Well i dont belive in this one for sure



Andy

[romulada]

Hi Boris,
What do you mean by trustworthy evidence? If you expect to see a document signed by Raeder with the list of diamonds ever presented then you will not find it
I think that comments from previous thread and from this one answer all questions:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=diamonds
Cheers,
Hubert

Hi, Hubert, no no - I dont want to see signet documents - I mean some historical sources - pictures with HSF wearing on uniform, list of awarded person...
Maybe I am so inexperienced or stupid
boris

[BB-BB]

Hi Boris,
What do you mean by trustworthy evidence? If you expect to see a document signed by Raeder with the list of diamonds ever presented then you will not find it
I think that comments from previous thread and from this one answer all questions:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=diamonds
Cheers,
Hubert

Hello BubbaZ,

can you tell me more about the "High Seas Fleet Badge with Diamonds" that was sold by Hüsken a few years ago with a document.

You wrote that this one is a fake and what is the Story about ?

Have you a screenshot from the offer from his page with the Price ? I heard he offered the badge for 42000€.

Thank you for the help.

Best regards
BB-BB

[Norm F]

You wrote that this one is a fake and what is the Story about ?

Have you a screenshot from the offer from his page with the Price ? I heard he offered the badge for 42000€.

Thank you for the help.

Best regards
BB-BB

From 2010 listing:
"Provenienz: Versteigerung Auflösung des Nachlasses von General-Admiral Otto Schniewind, Hanseatisches Auktionshaus für Historica, 13. Juni 1992, Los. Nr.137."

"Provenance: Auction Dissolution of the estate of General-Admiral Otto Schniewind, Hanseatic Auction House for Historica, June 13, 1992, Lot. No.137."

So supposedly from the dissolution of his estate 28 years after his death.

[Norm F]

continued

[Norm F]

It looks like the same sort of fake as the one described here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...83#post6850783
which is also attributed to Schniewind.

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

Norm,

You usually are more precise in your wording. There is no similarity between the two badges.

John

[John R.]

Does not the Hüsken badge bear a resemblance in construction to the U-boat diamond badges? I am specifically looking at the pin.

Just to be contrary I guess, we have zero provenance on the HSF diamonds badge purported to be good (see other threads on this one) so why do we discount this badge and the doc?

Maybe there were two awarded, like Bubba said, there is nothing out there that says who got any of the HSF badges as far as I know.

Maybe this did come from his estate, we do not know.

Is the doc a fake?

Was there some elaborate deception conceived to fool Hüsken?

John

[Norm F]

Norm,

You usually are more precise in your wording. There is no similarity between the two badges.

John

Hi John,

Here's the "Hamburg Maritime Museum Schniewind" compared with the "Hamburg Huesken Schniewind". They have exactly the same obverse design including the characteristic rectangular portholes. The Huesken badge just has more elaborately cut margins with even deeper notches cut on either side of the ship under the secondary armament.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Does not the Hüsken badge bear a resemblance in construction to the U-boat diamond badges? I am specifically looking at the pin.

I don't see any similarity to the hardware on the Schwerin U-Boat with diamonds. Different block hinge with a rounded or "double-barrelled" look on the Fleet.

[Norm F]

Maybe there were two awarded; like Bubba said, there is nothing out there that says who got any of the HSF badges as far as I know.

Maybe this did come from his estate, we do not know.

Is the doc a fake?

Was there some elaborate deception conceived to fool Hüsken?

John

Hi John,

I know you're just playing Devil's advocate, but just as a quick review on what is known about KM diamonds badges in general:
1) They were not official awards, but rather a personal project of Raeder and were gifts bestowed by him.
2) As such they didn't come with official award documents, but rather a personalized letter from Raeder (like the one sent to Brill's widow).
3) They were given to selected recipients of the Oakleaves.

Schniewind was never awarded the Oakleaves to the Knights Cross. The only Fleet ship commander who did receive the Oakleaves was Admiral Theodor Krancke, but not until October, 1944 and he never received the Fleet badge with diamonds (in fact, as of yet there has been no documented diamonds badge award after May, 1944).

So I'd say yes for sure the document is a fake, and no we can't (yet) rule out the badge coming from his estate and that he possibly bought the badge before his death or that his family bought one between his death in 1964 and and the purported date of the estate being dissolved in 1992. But why then are there two of them in Hamburg -- one with the Maritime museum and one with Huesken both attributed to Schniewind? And what historical significance could they possibly have in this context?

Best regards,
---Norm