Minesweeper badge in cloth

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

One of my last acquisitions of 2011 - a cloth Minesweeper badge.

I really like the look and feel of this one. It's the same type that's shown in wear in the photograph from the English edition of "The Kriegsmarine Awards" on page 835.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

I tried to skew the photo of my badge to compare it side-by-side with the period photo. A very close match but there seems to be a difference in the space between the lower arm of the swastika and the tip of the water column.

Cheers.
---Norm

[John R.]

Outstanding Norm, nice finish to the year. John

[BubbaZ]

Hi Norm,
Superb and very rare badge
Great find!
Cheers,
Hubert

[John R.]

I agree Hubert.

In addition, a recently discovered photograph of a cloth U-boat badge has proven that the machine embroidered U-boat badge was worn also. This photo is not available for posting unfortunately due to ownership issues.

This is in addition to the one in Torpedo Los, page 197 worn by Luth since that badge could be bullion or machine embroidered--impossible to tell by the photo. In the new photo it is clearly machine embroidered.

However, this makes two of the cloth types with provenance, meaning the minesweeper and the U-boat.

I think I have seen a photo someplace of the destroyer in wear, not sure.

John

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

Here's something a bit puzzling. On page 129 of Gordon Williamson's "War Badges of the Kriegsmarine" there are some cloth Minesweepers and the middle of the page shows what is described as a genuine example (from Jamie Cross) while the bottom of the page shows what is described as a copy.

The Jamie Cross one is clearly different from mine. I skewed it similarly to mine for the purposes of comparing to the period photograph from "The Kriegsmarine Awards" and it's clear to me that mine (far right) matches the period photo better than the Jamie Cross example (far left). Of course this doesn't mean the Jamie Cross one is not original, simply that it doesn't quite match the period photo.

However the "copy" on the bottom of the page is in fact a very close match to mine and to the period photo (shown in the next posting).

[Norm F]

Now when you compare the supposed "fake" (from Detlev Niemann) to my original you see that they are extremely close aside from the different backing. I really couldn't say if the Niemann badge truly is a fake or not, but if it's a fake then it's a scarily close match to the original. I'm not so sure it is a fake...?

[John R.]

Withoutknowing if yours passed the blacklight test and maybe a burn test on that loose strand, I like both of them. Yours and the Cross example.

I just think there were a lot of makers that produced these during the war and that there are many variations to the badge.

John

[Norm F]

Withoutknowing if yours passed the blacklight test and maybe a burn test on that loose strand, I like both of them. Yours and the Cross example.

I just think there were a lot of makers that produced these during the war and that there are many variations to the badge.

John

Hi John,

I like the look of the Jamie Cross badge as well. Here's another previously posted example of the same kind (attached). Unfortunately we can't have period photos of every variation.

But the harder question is the Niemann badge with the white backing in the previous post. The stitching pattern on that is an exact match to mine which does match the period photo. It's a far closer match in my opinion than any of the fake Kleinkampfmittel cloth items we've seen posted, so I don't understand why there should be such a fantastically successful fake of an inexpensive Minesweeper badge versus the unsuccessful fakes of a ridiculously overvalued small attack craft badge?

[John R.]

What about the blacklight result?

[Norm F]

What about the blacklight result?

I don't own one...should look into that. Of course, my understanding is if it's UV negative it's helpful and reassuring, but if the cloth has been washed with modern detergent even once it makes it light up so no farther ahead in that case? The nice thick stiff wool cloth background cloth on mine feels very convincing as do the wear and staining pattern, and of course the direct match to the period photo.

But of course we have no way of testing the Niemann badge with the white backing pictured in the book.

[John R.]

The handheld blacklight is a useful device to own. Try waving it around the next time you check into a motel room!!!!!!!!

In any case, , it is just nice to know when you own cloth TR artifacts.

John

[AndyC]

Norm for me its a good one, good details and good looking



Andy

[Norm F]

Norm for me its a good one, good details and good looking

Andy

Thanks Andy. For me, there's no question regarding the authenticity of mine that I posted at the top of the thread -- proper materials, age and a dead ringer to the period photograph. My question pertains to the ones from page 129 of "War Badges of the Kriegsmarine", but that's probably unanswerable at this time.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

The handheld blacklight is a useful device to own. Try waving it around the next time you check into a motel room!!!!!!!!

In any case, , it is just nice to know when you own cloth TR artifacts.

John

Hi John,

My black light arrived today so here are the results. I photographed the badge against a modern white T-shirt both obverse and reverse, first in normal light and then in the dark while shining the black light on the badge. I have no basis of experience, but I assume that it's black light negative?

Best regards,
---Norm