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**Bob Hritz** · 06-19-2004, 05:15 PM

Is the day coming where the COA's are all framed and mounted and the badges will be in a box in the basement?

I can forsee the day of a show display of nothing but COA's. I have to stop, my sides are hurting.

Bob Hritz

**Frank Heukemes** · 06-19-2004, 06:58 PM

As sad as it may be, Bob, that day IS already here. I am also frequenting some German medal collector´s forums and I am amazed how far back generally the knowledge of most German medal collectors is. I have to hand it to you international collectors, really. If you ever felt German collectors must be so much more knowledgeable like you, rest assured: at least the ones organized and discussing on the internet are NOT. The things that can be read there are incredible. Some few stand out above the totally unknowledgeable crowd and their word seems to be gospel to the others. That wouldn´t be so bad, but even the better guys there equal the level of a fast learning beginner here. A lot of crap is spread.

But what I really wanted to point out is, these guys discuss a lot of COAs and they are also showing some in scans. They don´t buy anything that does not have a COA from the most accepted dealer (Detlev Niemann) or official, state appointed specialist (Jörg Nimmergut). If they buy a medal that does not have already a COA that comes with it, they have one done immediately. Shockingly enough, some of the shown COAs are plain nonsense or at least they make you really, really wonder. And that includes ALL of the sources that issue these. Relying just and only on COAs (yes, any COAs) can be a very dangerous thing.
It all comes down to the same advice again and again: learn to be your own expert. NOTHING beats your own opinion but only if you feel confident and knowledgeable enough to have one. You better just listen and ask if that is not the case yet. Listen to guys that offer their opinions and prove to be right with it. How do you know a certain opinion is the right one? Just by your OWN observation. You will get the hang of who to listen to pretty fast if you have a certain talent to listen well. I listened a lot when I first came here and soon found out whose words to absorb and remember and whose opinions are better to be taken with a grain of salt.
The unprofitable task to help other collectors does by far not only bring joy. I read on "another forum" how some guy is putting me down for my comments on campaign shields. How it gets worse and worse with me and how every shield that does not look like a lump of metal is called a nice and rare variant or maker by me now. I would not say these things if I would not have studied these shields. Some others like Pascal share this passion with me and it is amazing how we come to the same views WITHOUT discussing much among each other. It is before your eyes, you just have to look.
I had people like that guy from the "other" forum make similar comments to me in the past. Some came back to me after a while and were man enough to say: I now know now that you were right, sorry for having offended you, I know better now. That is a nice feeling, one has achieved to bring somebody who had a totally different view to look at things again, finally learn for HIMSELF what is right and wrong and then come back to you to tell you you have been right.
With other people you will not have a pleasant experience like that, ever. That guy who said this on the "other forum" is one of those. His truth is (I assume, reading between his lines) that an original campaign shield has to look highly detailed, crisp and nicely designed. He probably thinks he has made a real deal when he found one in Tombak, wow! Shields with bad detail HAVE to be fakes, that Frank idiot does not know what he is talking about. If you know a little bit more than the basics of collecting, it is very clear that some maker´s original badges are not very beautiful while some fakes look much better than most originals. This is especially true for campaign shields.

Or another example: just now somebody else on "another forum" has made a great discovery. An original Hoffman photograph of a contemporary Anti Partisan Badge. I have to add here this person is a type of collector who DOES learn fast and is ahead of most of his entourage whatever that is worth. But he probably has not had the chance yet to study APBs in detail. The APB on that photograph does NOT have a twisted sword handle. This is enough to bring them to the conclusion that the "self proclaimed experts" who think the ones with twisted handles are originals must be wrong, because here we have an original wartime photograph that clearly shows an APB without the twist in the handle.
A very dangerous assumption and not very wise to maul other people if you haven´t studied the badge even long enough to know there are more than just ONE type and maker of original APB and that twisted handles and non-twisted handles can both be found on perfectly original badges (e.g. Juncker type and AGMuK type).

Sorry for the long post, sometimes I need to whine a little too!

**Bob Hritz** · 06-19-2004, 10:56 PM

Well said, Frank!

Yes, it is up to the collector to attempt to learn everything he can. The various forums are a double edge sword. Someone can tout himself as an expert and many will take it as gospel. Like any endeavour, it takes much work to be a success. If you want someone to do all the work for you, you better be prepared to pay for his life support, in his old age.

Bob Hritz

**Gerd Becker** · 06-19-2004, 11:55 PM

Well said, Frank.
Don´t worry about these guys, they are just jealous.
We all are standing behind you.

**Warren O** · 06-25-2004, 07:28 PM

It never ceases to amaze me how many peple are out there collecting and don't even have a basic knowledge of thier subject. Some don't even know the proper name of the medal or badge the're collecting and the history behind it. The first thing they do is run to a forum and ask for opinions, don't get me wrong the forum is great but these folks should at least know the history behind the award.
As for COA's I think mine are stuffed in a cabinet somewhere, means nothing.
Warren

**robert60446** · 04-17-2005, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by Alex K.

Here is the badge that caused my question. The S.h.u.Co. wirting is more on the left side and the shape of the S of S.h.u.Co is different. Any opinions ? Good copy or other type of the maker?

Hi,

I have exactly the same Destroyer badge version as yours Alex. However mine is worn-out. I got this badge from the former Kriegsmarine sailor. I know that this means nothing or very little as far as badge authenticity, but the whole post is interesting enough in my opinion to raise the question: can we prove that these different badges are original ones? Unfortunately, I have no evidence to support my feeling that these badges are indeed original. At least for now! However, I’m on the mission! Below I’m posting pictures of my S.H.u.Co…

**robert60446** · 04-21-2005, 08:40 PM

Ok,

I finally got something to support my point of view. Please go to the bottom of this post from our own forum! I have to agree with the last two comments (made by: Frank Heukemes and Infansammler). This is the second RARE AND ORIGINAL variant of the Destroyer badge by S.H.u.Co!

Regards
Robert<o ="">
</o>

**robert60446** · 04-21-2005, 09:17 PM

Here are the few pictures to point out differences between the two types. The 2<sup>nd</sup> pattern is first from left!<o =""></o>

The most obvious difference is in S.H.u.Co. Manufacturer mark as well.

**Hans N** · 04-22-2005, 07:13 AM

Hi,

the difference between the 2 badges above is ok by me. SH.u.Co obviously had 2 different types of Destroyerbadges, the same difference of the makermarks can be seen on the IAB´s by this maker as well. Nothing to worry about IMHO.

**robert60446** · 04-22-2005, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by Hans N

Hi,

the difference between the 2 badges above is ok by me. SH.u.Co obviously had 2 different types of Destroyerbadges, the same difference of the makermarks can be seen on the IAB´s by this maker as well. Nothing to worry about IMHO.

I agree! However by many collectors this type of the S.H.u.Co. Destroyer badge was labeled as a fake. You absolutely correct about IAB link as well! Anyway, I think it is a time for the full rehabilitation of this badge to the “real and original” status!
Regards
Robert<o =""></o>

**Frank Heukemes** · 04-22-2005, 08:47 AM

But still...there are many fakes of the SHuCo destroyer about!

**robert60446** · 04-22-2005, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by Frank Heukemes

But still...there are many fakes of the SHuCo destroyer about!

As any other badge...

Regards
Robert

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