U-BOAT BADGE. Your help, please.

[julio65]

Hi Julio,

I agree, the hinge/pin assembly looks replaced - nicely done too. It seems you can see the larger footprint of the original hinge block in the old solder, and the finish has been disturbed. The catch looks original though.

So it's quite probably a wartime badge with post-war hinge/pin assembly repair.

Best regards,
---Norm

Hi Norm.
Yes, the larger footprint of the original hinge is clearly visible, as far as the old solder.
I´m very grateful with you, and the other forum members, for your invaluable help.
Kind regards
Julio65

[RichardT]

Hi Richard,


1) Is that just a scratch or some kind of mark on the center of the main pin on the bottom row, second from the left?

Norm, pin is stamped "65". I have seen other markings on these badges in the past, as well as round wire catches.

2) I assume that massive block hinge in the top row on the far right is once again replacement hardware. The rest of them show the standard common setup, also used by S&L and by F&BL on their zinc U-Boats, amongst others.

Hard to say for sure Norm as the pictures I have aren't great.

Re: the eagle compilation:

The bottom one with the blue background has no cutouts in the swastika and is in fact the hollow version of this badge.

It may be Norm, but unfortunately I can't find it in my database.

Best regards,
---Norm

Richard

[Norm F]

Re: the eagle compilation:

The bottom one with the blue background has no cutouts in the swastika and is in fact the hollow version of this badge.

It may be Norm, but unfortunately I can't find it in my database.

Richard

Hi Richard,

That U-boat photographed on the blue background with the solid swastika is the same badge posted previously by Bob Hritz. It's the hollow version, and indeed all the hollow versions have a solid swastika while the solid zinc versions have a cut-out swastika.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Norm, pin is stamped "65".

Richard

Hi Richard,

That's fascinating that you've seen this example of the 5-feather U-boat with a typical "65" marking in the pin. Not because I think this badge is made by Klein & Quenzer (which I don't), but rather because of the implications regarding the other "65"-marked U-boat design.

As you know, there are rare examples (countable on one hand) of the S&L-type zinc U-boat with the same "65" marked pin and identical setup, which formed the basis for the inclusion of a "K&Q" U-Boat badge in "Torpedo Los". However, there's no evidence for K&Q having produced any other KM badges, and the same U-boat badges in unmarked form are now also attributable to S&L who indeed made a complete line of KM badges. The entire setup is quite generic, with this short barrel hinge, wide pin and flat-wire catch and is found on other badges by makers in Lüdenscheid, Berlin and elsewhere.

So, now finding a generic pin system with a "65" stamp on what amount to "one-off" examples of two different usually-unmarked zinc U-boat designs casts serious doubt on K&Q ever being the actual manufacturer of what used to be called the "unmarked K&Q". They more likely represent pin replacements, whether in wartime or post-war.

[Norm F]

On further reflection, the "65" mark on that 5-feather U-boat badge doesn't look original. It's somewhat angular as though engraved in rather than stamped, and doesn't match the "65" mark on the "S&L-style K&Q" badge seen on p. 174 in "Torpedo Los".

However, the "65" on the "S&L-style" K&Q also does not match the proven and accepted "65" mark seen on the K&Q EK1s and KVK1s, appearing somewhat "italicized" in comparison. Based on these comparisons, I'm inclined to eliminate Klein & Quenzer as the maker of any U-boat badge, which makes sense given that there is no other link of K&Q to any KM war badges.

Best regards,
---Norm

P.S. There's another suspect "65" on this 1st class Ostvolk badge here in this thread.

[BubbaZ]

Hi Norm, sounds very reasonable to me. Probably the same case as with "100" marked "S&L-style" or just S&L zinc u-boats? W&L marked u-boats are even scarcer than these with K&Q mm
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

Hi Norm, sounds very reasonable to me. Probably the same case as with "100" marked "S&L-style" or just S&L zinc u-boats? W&L marked u-boats are even scarcer than these with K&Q mm
Cheers,
Hubert

Hi Hubert,

Although it's getting off the topic of the 5-feather U-boats in this thread, I'll just add regarding the "S&L-style" U-boat badges that I've seen images of only one 65-marked pin (the one from Torpedo Los) but I think Gordon mentioned seeing two in total.

I've only seen two 100-marked "W&L" U-boats of this type as well, one of which is missing its catch which already makes you wonder about replaced hardware. The "100" marked pin on these looks like a legitimate W&L pin, which is identical to the S&L pin but simply having the "100" mark stamped into it's underside. But another point casting doubt on the "W&L" is the existence of this EK1 which was previously posted in the Cross forum. Here you see an S&L frame and core (which is different from the W&L crosses) with a classic S&L original catch but a 100-stamped W&L main pin and hinge. No one would suggest this "100" marked cross was made by W&L, so likewise it seems a shaky supposition to attribute the 100-marked "S&L-style" U-Boat to W&L. Finally, unlike other U-boat badge makers, there is no known verifiable link between W&L and any KM war badge aside from these lone markings.

Best regards,
---Norm

[all1knew]

I will post better photos but here's one I just picked up.

William Kramer

[colt45s]

cut out swas and cannon looks great

[Norm F]

Here's the other reference thread on the "5-feather" U-boats.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=740363

Best regards,
---Norm