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    #1

    Unusual Minesweeper Badge

    Hello to all,

    I can't ever recall seeing a Minesweeper Badge like this one. It is tombak based and has lost most of its gilding. The obverse design is very similar to R.K. The badge has a very unique-looking catch.

    55.23mm high
    44.89mm wide
    29.6 grams

    Best regards,
    Tom
    Attached Files
    Mihi libertas necessest!
    Tags: None
    #2
    reverse:
    Attached Files
    Mihi libertas necessest!

    Comment

      #3
      catch:
      Attached Files
      Mihi libertas necessest!

      Comment

        #4
        Nice badge...do any of the known makers have the highly-uneven water level between the left and right sides of the waterspout? That's what jumps out at me. I looked at Minesweeper threads for a couple of pages, but didn't see any others this pronounced.

        best
        Hank
        Unless it was nighttime, or the weather was bad, and you were running out of gas - then it was a sweaty nightmare, like a monkey f*ing a skunk.
        ~ Dan Hampton, Viper Pilot

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by Hank Cummings View Post
          Nice badge...do any of the known makers have the highly-uneven water level between the left and right sides of the waterspout? That's what jumps out at me. I looked at Minesweeper threads for a couple of pages, but didn't see any others this pronounced.

          best
          Hank
          Hello Hank,

          Minesweeper Badges by A.S. in a triangle have this same uneven waterline feature and the other obverse details match up as well.

          Best regards,
          Tom
          Mihi libertas necessest!

          Comment

            #6
            Hi Tom,
            Classic tombak AS in triangle Minesweeper but the main pin has been filed IMO. Here is mine for comparison.
            Cheers,
            Hubert
            Attached Files
            Last edited by BubbaZ; 06-19-2011, 02:49 AM.

            Comment

              #7
              Hi guys,

              Nice addition Tom, and I agree with you guys that it appears to be an unmarked AS in Triangle (or Adolf Scholze??).

              That is such a unique catch on these badges, has anyone ever seen it on any marked badges before? Did "AS in Triangle" or Adolf Scholze use this catch on any other badge? Just offhand, the catch looks like those used by Hoffstatter on their EK1s, and I think Wernstein used this type of catch on their IABs & Sportsbadges, correct?

              Tom
              If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

              New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
              [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
              Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

              Comment

                #8
                Hi Guys,

                It's type 3.2.1 in the Minesweeper Classification Thread. As Hubert says, attributed to AS in triangle because of unique obverse die characteristics.

                Tom, no other maker or badge has this unique catch, although the ones you mention are similar. We discussed this before on GCA -- can't find the thread right now, but here's the compilation I put together at that time.

                Best regards,
                ---Norm
                Attached Files

                Comment

                  #9
                  Oh, very nice compliation Norm. That is a big help, and can see now that many catches are similar, but not exactly the same as these on the unmarked AS in Triangle. Thanks for putting this together

                  Tom
                  If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                  New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                  [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                  Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                  Comment

                    #10
                    This type of Minesweeper is also seen in post #40 of the reference thread.

                    Best regards,
                    ---Norm

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Thanks to all for the comments.

                      Special thanks to Norm for all of the detailed information and comparisons.

                      Did A.S. in a triangle produce any other badges in Buntmetall? I cannot think of any. It makes one wonder: Although the details of the obverse match up well, was this really their work?

                      Best regards,
                      Tom
                      Mihi libertas necessest!

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by tyanacek View Post
                        ...
                        Did A.S. in a triangle produce any other badges in Buntmetall? I cannot think of any. It makes one wonder: Although the details of the obverse match up well, was this really their work?

                        Best regards,
                        Tom
                        Hi Tom,

                        You're quite right that the "AS in triangle" mark appeared on the scene only later in the war on zinc minesweepers, S-Boats, IABs and PABs.

                        The 7-page thread called "Unfinished AS Minesweepers" contains all the evidence posted by Pavel from Gablonz making the connection between AS in Triangle and Adolf Scholze. In a nutshell, in Gablonz he found ground-dug "AS in triangle" prototype minesweepers in the company of ground-dug 2nd pattern Schwerin U-Boat clasps and W&L crimped wound badges. Furthermore he found the wartime account books of Adolf Scholze which showed that Schwerin and W&L were major customers of Scholze. Based on this, the theory was that Scholze started up a joint venture late in the war introducing the new logo at the same time.

                        Meanwhile, badge forensics link the "AS in triangle" marked zinc minesweepers sequentially backwards in time to the unmarked versions with the same "2nd pattern" eagles, onwards back to the unmarked versions with the "1st pattern" eagle and finally back to the tombak version with the "1st pattern eagle" that you posted in this thread. That timeline is summarized in the same thread from post #85 onwards.

                        So the question "Did AS in triangle produce any other badges in tombak?"
                        can be re-worded to "Did Adolf Scholze make any other tombak badges prior to introducing the "AS in triangle" logo?". The answer to that is probably yes, since it's likely that "A.S" (no triangle) tombak badges were also by him, and possibly even the unmarked Luftwaffe ball-hinge Flak badges (not proven though).

                        Best regards,
                        ---Norm
                        Last edited by Norm F; 06-20-2011, 04:58 PM.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Norm,
                          Thanks for this concise and factual reply to Tom's question. It's good to have such summary of the topic in one place
                          I have also zinc PABs, two of them are marked A.S. and the other AS in triangle. I am not a PAB geek but cannot see any difference between these badges except of mm.
                          Cheers,
                          Hubert

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Hi Guys,

                            The finish on these tombak Gablonz-made badges is interesting and somewhat fragile. From looking at various examples in various degrees of wear, it seems that they first plated the water column, waves and reverse in silver metal, then chemically darkened the waves, and finally painted a silver frosting to the entire water column, waves and reverse surface. This silver frosting didn't last well and is lost from most examples, although you can still see some remnants of it on the reverse of Hubert's example in posting #6, and somewhat more of it on the example attached here. As it wears off of the waves, the nice dark colour of the oxidized silver plating comes through, but the effect of the wear on the water column and reverse is less pleasing.

                            Likewise the gilding is different from other cities' makers' gilding on tombak badges. It's smoother in texture and a lighter shade than fire gilding and far less durable. However, the aesthetic appearance of my example (which is not captured well in this photo) is quite impressive in halogen lighting. The edges of the leaves and wings are polished and sparkle and glitter against the background of the gilding. I can see how a sailor would be well pleased when receiving a mint freshly awarded example on a sunny day!

                            Best regards,
                            ---Norm
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by Norm F; 06-25-2011, 09:48 PM.

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