Opinions to neval combat clasp ?

[portraithunter]

Hello gentlemen

I got these two clasps in a group of a Prinz Eugen sailer, and would like to hear the opinion of the expert once.

[Patrick W]

I like them both, that type of poorly detailed strike is very typical of these front made pieces. This style is normally filled in with solder on the back with the pin sunk in it. The details picked out in black like that is quite unusual and I would say the receipients did this himself to make the award look better- not something I recall seeing before. In short look nice but hard sellers if you plan on moving them on. C Baldes has a couple of this type in his shop list approx 300 euros.

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

These certainly look believable to me. They were not struck of course, they were crudely manufactured (in this case cast) on board as with all original examples I can recall seeing.

Both examples are essentially the same (enough tiny differences in detail to be explained by the casting process) and both types of attachment methods - the holes for directly sewing to a uniform and the crudely soldered on safety pin - are period acceptable.

If you geninely got them from a Prinz Eugen vet and have no doubts about his story, this is one case where I would believe the seller / story!

So imo two nice spanges but, outside of the grouping, I agree you'd have a hard time selling them!

Regards
Mike

[John R.]

It might be helpful if you could post the rest of the grouping. Prinz Eugen has an inordinate amount of these clasps for the reason that it not only survived the war, it ended up in the hands of the United States--making a long journey from Germany to Bikini Atoll with a large German contingent aboard helping the US Navy sailors operate the vessel.

There was no objection by the Americans for the Prinz Eugen sailors to wear their cap tallies and clasps since no swastika is apparent.

So that long period of time from war's end to the atomic bomb test gave the German sailors ample opportunity to manufacture this award as compared to other vessels of the former Kriegsmarine.

John

[Mike Kenny]

......So that long period of time from war's end to the atomic bomb test gave the German sailors ample opportunity to manufacture this award as compared to other vessels of the former Kriegsmarine.....

...with the exception of the GM/SA (German MineSweeping Administration) which was formed in June 45 and disbanded in January 48 and was made up from an estimated 27,000 former KM sailors to clear mines. From my experience this is the main area KM combat clasps are sourced from as many of the sailors both retroactively qualified for the spange and had the time/resources to make them.

Regards
Mike

[portraithunter]

Hi guys
and thanks for your information. I like to show you some pictures of this group.
I'm glad to be able to use your knowledge as with religious and Navy certainly not my area are collecting.


René

[portraithunter]

2.

[portraithunter]

3.

[John R.]

Very nice grouping. Makes perfect sense that this sailor had the High Seas Fleet award, then the frontspange. John

[Mike Kenny]

The de-naz HSF fits with his continued service on the Prinz Eugen after the war. A very nice group indeed René! Thanks for sharing it!

Regards
Mike

[AndyC]

Nice grouping, thanks for sharing


Andy

[Mike Kenny]

It just clicked, a tombak HSF and a late 44 doc. Interesting! THe Prinz Eugen must have had a decent stash of early HSF badges on board! Not surprising. We know the Tirpitx also had earlier Schwerin (tombak) examples on board from what divers have recovered.

Regards
Mike

[monty]

KM Clasp and Document

I thought I would take the opportunity to post information supplied to me in emails from the late Bill Ringler. Bill had a substantial collection of Prinz Eugen items and had researched these clasps and documents. I post the information as supplied to me directly by Bill below:

"In mid-April, 1945 (Hitler was dead), the "Prinz Eugen" went on a rescue
mission to Danzig harbor and was intent upon rescuing as many of the
retreating Army and Waffen SS troops as possible.

Thiele formed what was called the "Armeegruppe Thiele" and 360+ "Prinz
Eugen" sailors VOLUNTEED for this rescue mission (12 were killed by
Russian artillery during the rescue).
The group succeeded in saving almost 1,000 German soldiers.

The Nazi High Command had authorized the award (and design) of this
achievement 2 years previously, BUT IT WAS SO LATE IN THE WAR THAT THE
PIECE HAD NEVER BEEN MADE!!!

When Thiele returned to the "Prinz Eugen" he ordered that the awards be
produced FOR PRESENTATION ONLY TO THE MEN OF "ARMEEGRUPPE THIELE" and they were made by hand in the machine shop of "Prinz Eugen." By the way,
these particular ORIGINAL awards were made ONLY on the "Prinz Eugen" and
nowhere else!!

The document was typed on Thiele's own typewriter and the stamp was made
in the repair shop of
"Prinz Eugen" and presented to the survivors of "Armeegruppe Thiele."

As far as the "Thiele" document and badge goes - from 20+ years of
research on this matter THEY WERE ONLY MADE ON THE "PRINZ EUGEN" AND
ONLY BETWEEN APRIL 11, 1945 AND APRIL 15, 1945; the total was about 360,
and today the combination of document and badge is as rare as hen's
teeth.

They aren't worth a tinker's dam to Nazi collectors - they don't have
any idea of what they are and what they are worth."

[Nordmark]

If these come with groupings, I would really appreciate such a clasp in a lot. But I would never pay extra for these, especially not if these come without any provenance and you have to pay 300€ for something, you could easily make in 30min. in your basement...



Daniel