Destroyer Rudolf Souval.

[O.S.V.]

Hi guys!

This badge good?

Regards.
Sergey.

[mrg]

Hi Unfortunately not one I would want.

[O.S.V.]

Hi Unfortunately not one I would want.

You want to tell, what it is a copy?

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

I notice Gary didn't say it was a copy --- just not one he would want.

Maybe it's just me, but this badge looks like an original Souval that has had the mark sanded off. The reasons I say this are:

a) Has all the right obverse die features and realistic finish.
b) Has all the right reverse die surface flaws, ejector pin marks, oval raised tilted outline around the hinge, etc.
c) The hardware looks bang on, right down to the long pointy pin.

Look at the closeup marked with arrows. The green arrows mark a gouge on the right and some fine striations on the left from an abrasive process. The red arrow 1 points to a linear reverse flaw that is usually more prominent in Souvals but is sanded down here. The red arrow 2 points to the round ejector pin mark which you can see has had the upper margin sanded down. Red arrow 3 points to the arrow where the maker mark should have been, and I imagine I see very faint vestiges of the mark.

Overall the reverse surface seems very clean from a light sanding, and you can see it's less sanded and darker on the upper third of the wreath and the circular area around the catch. Obvious when you see it next to Adrian Stevenson's badge posted back in 2006.

Overall seems like someone was embarrassed to have a Souval?

Best regards,
---Norm

[mrg]

You want to tell, what it is a copy?

Hi as norm said never said it was a copy but I gave it the thumbs down as for me it did not match originals and with R.S being what it is, it is always a tricky subject. What i had noticed was the brightness of the reverse (norm could be right here and could well be sanded, Im personally not sure). Reverse outlined does not have the harshness of the R.S. Catch looks a little too bright for me again (again possibly cleaned as it does match originals) and going of the pictures the hinge looks filled? Not sure if that is the case. The other example what norm has shown is what I tend to go for. Regards.

[Ludwig]

Bad fake IMO.

[Norm F]

Bad fake IMO.

Well, if it's a fake (and it may well be) it sure isn't a "bad fake" for the reasons listed earlier.

But it's amazing how much effort we continually put into sorting out the wartime vs. post-war original vs. reproduction story on both S&L and Souval badges. For the casual collector or the investor looking for resale vaule, it's probably best to just avoid them all and leave that whole area for specialized collectors who seek to have an example of every variant.

Best regards,
---Norm