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Pair of U-Boot Badges: Wernstein & Bacqueville?

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    Pair of U-Boot Badges: Wernstein & Bacqueville?

    Hello:

    Here for all to see are two U-Boot badges in my collection. I will outline from my research what I believe to be relevant about each of them, but I would appreciate opinions, please, regarding maker and originality.

    Badge #1 (left): The first is zinc with a gilt wash, much of which has gone leaving the badge a gray colour. The dimensions are 49.1 x 40.1mm. I believe it to possibly be made by Hermann Wernstein. The reason for this being that the numerals "17" are stamped into the metal on the reverse in the middle of the submarine (but no "L" nor maker's icon). Also, the hinge attachment appears to me of the kind which that firm used, although there is no scalloped edge to the portion soldered to the back of the wreath. The flatwire retaining clasp is soldered directly to the badge, not mounted on a disc base, which I believe Wernstein used. This retaining clasp is soldered to the bottom of the wreath, versus in the middle of the U-Boot (where the numerals "17" appear). The eagle's feet as well as the body and feathers, especially on the legs, are consistent with those pictured in Tucker's latest book on page 274. The swastika is cut-out, and the pin is a tapering needle one 34.5mm long. No parts are magnetic and there are no markings other than the numerals.

    Badge #2 (right): I believe this badge to also be zinc and manufactured by the French firm of Bacqueville. The badge details are almost identical to that shown on pages 276-77 of Tucker's latest book (eagle's head and short body, leaf veins, squared-off lower portion of the U-Boot, large waterline groove, flag) and also appears the same as that shown by Jamie Cross on the W-A site. The dimensions are 48.2 x 38.7mm and the thickness of the wreath is 2.5mm. The hinge and the flatwire retaining clasp are both mounted to round discs which are soldered to the wreath. The hinge has a bolt-like hinge pin. The "coke-bottle" pin measures 35.5mm long. No maker or other markings.

    Are these originals and who are the makers? Pictures follow.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by jwburchell; 04-25-2004, 08:02 PM.

    #2
    The reverse of both badges:
    Attached Files

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      #3
      reverse views again:
      Attached Files

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        #4
        and again:
        Attached Files

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          #5
          and one last one:
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            #6
            The right hand one is Baqueville, but the other isnt Wernstein. Here is a Wernstein.
            Last edited by Gordon Williamson; 08-30-2008, 11:56 PM.

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              #7
              Reverse
              Last edited by Gordon Williamson; 08-30-2008, 11:56 PM.

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                #8
                The obverse looks nearer to Funcke & Bruninghaus in terms of the shape of the eagles chest etc, but with a cut out swastika. The pin isn't right for F&BL though. Here is an original F&BL L/56. The pics of the one at right are too dark to really make out any detail. Can you post scans ?
                Last edited by Gordon Williamson; 08-30-2008, 11:56 PM.

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                  #9
                  Badge #1 (left) - additional pictures

                  Gordon: Thanks, for your comments. My scanner is not working at the moment. But here are a couple of pictures of the pin on the badge which I believe you requested, hopefully better for your identification purposes. Please let me know if this works. Thanks, John
                  Attached Files

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                    #10
                    Additional picture (badge #1, left):
                    Attached Files

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                      #11
                      Hi John,

                      If that catch is not a repair/replacement then I'd have serious doubts about that badge - the hinge and pin aren't something I'd be comfortable either.

                      Regards
                      Mike K
                      Regards
                      Mike

                      Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!

                      If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!

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                        #12
                        Additional pictures - Badge 1 (left): Hinge & Clasp

                        Thanks, Mike. The pin and clasp seem to have the same age as the overall reverse of this badge, and to me do not look like they have been replaced. I've tried to get a couple more clearer shots of this, which follow. Thanks, again. John
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by jwburchell; 04-26-2004, 12:41 PM.

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                          #13
                          and another:
                          Attached Files

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                            #14
                            John

                            I think it's a "thumbs down" for this one. The badge itself could pass as a worn late war zinker, but the fittings are all wrong. Never seen a retaining clip like that on any original badge.

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                              #15
                              Thanks, Gordon. Given your comment that it could pass as a worn late war zinker, I'll use it for a display piece on a tunic with other "salty" insignia. John

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