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**BobD** · 04-25-2004, 11:15 AM

Rear

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**Frank Heukemes** · 04-25-2004, 03:59 PM

Dera Bob,

I think there is still much to learn about tehse semi hollow type HSF badges.

Some people take the easy way out and say all of these are fakes. Too easy in my opinion.

So what do we have?

1) There is one type with the Foerster & Barth type setup. I believe this type badge to be original

2) There is the exact same body of the badge with a late war Juncker type setup. I believe these badges to be original

3) There is your badge which has a setup I have not seen before. Again, the body of the badge is the very same one as in type 1) and 2). Interstingly enough, your badge has a pin and hinge also typical (for earlier) Juncker made Kriegsmarine badges.

4) There are several reproductions (all cast) of this type badge, some with fake markings like AS in triangle. If one looks closer, all of these fakes, as different as their finishes and markings might be, have some points to distinguish them from the originals in 1) 2) and 3). I marked them on the example pics according to my numbers below.

First the Foerster & Bart type badge described in 1). I borrowed the pic from Lorenzo. I marked some areas (just as examples) which are important to distinguish originals from the fakes:

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hsfunmkd2marked.jpg (98.3 KB, 212 views)

**Frank Heukemes** · 04-25-2004, 04:01 PM

Type 2) with late war Juncker setup. Note the areas marked, same characteristics as in type 1), even the orientation line for the hinge is there.

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217011924878_Flotten1marked.jpg (44.3 KB, 212 views)

**Frank Heukemes** · 04-25-2004, 04:02 PM

Type 3) (BobD´s). Same characteristics and interestingly enough, also with a Juncker (earlier type) setup:

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HSF Rearmarked.jpg (77.6 KB, 209 views)

**Frank Heukemes** · 04-25-2004, 04:07 PM

Now the fakes which confused the market and make now believe many people all of these semi hollow HSF badges must be bad.

Note how the marked areas are NOT the same as in the originals. However, ALL semi hollow type HSF fakes share the same characteristics as well, no matter how they are bogus marked or setup on the reverse.

So we have a matching set of characteristics in all originals as well as another matching set of characteristics in all fakes. Once you took that in, it is not so hard.

Fake as described in 4):

**Tom Yanacek** · 04-25-2004, 04:09 PM

Hello Bob!

I think your badge is probably a good one, but I cannot be completely certain as I do not have much experience with this type of High Seas Fleet Badge. I like the look of the piece. It appears to be made of zinc and I like the bubbling and peeling of the finish on the reverse. Very good indicators in my opinion.
Best regards! Tom Yanacek

**Frank Heukemes** · 04-25-2004, 04:11 PM

Another AS in triangle marked fake, note same characteristics as in fake above but NO match to the original types 1), 2) and 3):

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1959373208_3456marked.jpg (94.7 KB, 202 views)

**Lorenzo Brown** · 04-25-2004, 08:21 PM

Hi Bob. I agree that your example looks good to me for the reasons already stated.

Added to Frank's examples, here is yet another fake of this semi-hollowback HSF badge. The details on this one are very sharp and the hinge and pin are reminiscent of "FO", but it is 100% fake, made from a gold colored modern metal. Note in the 2nd picture that wreath is bare metal...that is the actual metal that the badge is made from!

These "semi-hollow" badges have long been questioned by collectors, but I think that there are definitely originals, made from zinc, from which the copies were modeled.

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hsfscallop3.jpg (103.7 KB, 190 views)

**Lorenzo Brown** · 04-25-2004, 08:22 PM

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