SoS Find - Schwerin U-Boot

[Blued]

Hello all,

I've been a bit slow posting my SoS finds, but I was very happy to pick-up my first Schwerin Uboot badge. I have had a tricky time placing this guy. It has all the features of Type 5, but the hinge isn't flipped. The catch is a squared flat-wire, it has a domed-head pin. Maybe I'm missing something.

Thanks,
Chad

P.S. It is hard to scan and photo these Kriegs badges! Neither captures the burnishing or the details, especially in the parts where the fire guilding is intact!!

[AndyC]

Nice Schwerin U-boot


Andy

[Christopher G.]

Great badge Chad...those scans definately do NOT do this badge justice. Take some photos of the badge with a normal camera...

Chris

[Norm F]

Hi Chad,

Very nice badge!

It is an interesting overlap of the types in the classification thread. Looks like a cross between the classic 4b 2nd pattern and the type 5a with the dome-head hinge pin. Pretty cool.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Hans Kondor]

Very nice one Chad, congrats!

[Steve Mezey]

Very nice

Good find
Any schwerin is a friend of mine!

Steve

[John R.]

It has all the features of Type 5, but the hinge isn't flipped.

I am not sure the flipped hinge type was really a Schwerin or instead farmed out to S&L or another manufacturer. See this thread:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=deumer

So if you want a classic looking SB, yours is the way to go.

John

[John R.]

Hi Chad,

Very nice badge!

It is an interesting overlap of the types in the classification thread. Looks like a cross between the classic 4b 2nd pattern and the type 5a with the dome-head hinge pin. Pretty cool.

Best regards,
---Norm

I guess we could call this a 4d example with better pictures of the catch from the side among other things. What do you think?

Again, macro function on, flash off, natural lighting, stable platform for photos.

John

[Thomas Durante]

Nice on Chad, a real beauty and a heck of a deal you got on this one

Tom

[Blued]

Thanks for all the positive comments guys.

@ Chris: I know! I can't seem to capture the shinny-ness with the scanner or my camera. I don't know how these kriegs guys do it!

@ John: How does this picture of the catch and pin work? I can take more of the same, or more of other areas.

[John R.]

Perfect Chad. Now if you can take a couple the same way of the front and back, we are set.

Norm, can you work up something and I will put it into the timeline thread--if we do, we need to go back and change the charts and then add this badge to one of the existing posts.

John

[John R.]

By the way Chad, besides my usual micro function on, flash off, steady platform advice (thanks Jeff V for teaching me that one day in Holland ) you can also make a shadow box using a piece of white cardboard.

All I do is move the cardboard around, and I use the top of a bankers box, to minimize a shadow. Your photos are fine, but sometimes the shadow in natural light cause an issue and moving the box top around will minimize it.

John

[Norm F]

I guess we could call this a 4d example with better pictures of the catch from the side among other things. What do you think?
...
John

Hi John,

When we put together the Schwerin "timeline" we set categories based on the existence of several examples of each type. Even the rare small maker-marked type 4a had 3 examples, while we omitted a few one-offs.

So I'd say wait for more examples to appear before introducing the "4d", and for now view it as a really cool variant that shows the production link between the type 4 and type 5 badges.

Although we call it a "timeline", really it's a classification scheme that no doubt has temporal overlap between types. I'd say Chad's example is a Type 4 that was produced at the same time as the Type 5a.

To explain further, you yourself made the connection between the Type 5 U-boat and the long-pin badge illustration in S&L's 1940 catalog, and that's one of several points supporting the idea that Schwerin unmarked badges were either meant to be distributed to other makers, or produced by other makers on Schwerin-produced tooling. I think this is emerging as the dominant theory.

Andreas and Basti have mentioned from their research in wound badges that in the early part of the war before large volumes were required, the model of wound badge production began with the Hauptmünzamt as the first and main supplier of tooling and other manufacturers were told by the PK to get their tooling from them, a practise which could not be sustained later in the war when demand grew and other manufacturers made their own dies.

Meanwhile the Klietmann reference has maintained that Schwerin was the only producer of the U-boat until early 1941.

Taken collectively, these statements support the idea of Schwerin being the first official supplier of U-boat badges and tooling - perhaps only placing their mark on their personal line and distributing the unmarked versions to others like S&L in the early part of the war.

Later as demand grew, all the other manufacturers got into the game with their own productions, either producing their own dies or getting dies from other third-party die producers. That could explain why all the subsequently introduced Kriegsmarine badges by Schwerin were always marked -- by this time others could produce their own dies and Schwerin was no longer supplying badges to others. (Having said that, probably some working relationship persisted between Schwerin and Lüdenscheid accounting for the similarity of Assmann and Deumer Minesweepers to Schwerin's, the Deumer unmarked zinc U-boat and the occasional unmarked zinc Schwerin 2nd pattern S-Boat.)

To bring this long message to a close, the point is that the Type 4 and Type 5 Schwerin U-Boat badges were likely produced simultaneously but for different markets, accounting for Chad's interesting hybrid badge.

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

OK, that sounds fine.

I would say that in my opinion, and it is only an opinion, that the upside down hinge example was not assembled in the Schwerin plant. Makes no sense. Too many of them around for it to have been a one off mistake by a sleepy worker, but then, anything is possible. In other words, the hardware was put on elsewhere and they did not know the hinge was supposed to be the other way around.

On the other hand, the normal SB badges without a mark may or may not have been sold by SB or another manufacturer. I think you can say this about almost any unmarked badge--there is not 100% certainty about it.

John

[Jeff V]

Nice original badge is all that matters.
best wishes,
jeff