Opinion of Aux Cruiser

[Martin W]

Thanks for the additional images Norm.

Clealy an S&L award,but as i mentioned before could it be period or postwar?

I would really like to have measurements on this one,especially from the globe.

I will contact Barry at e-medals to see if he can help us here.


Regards,Martin,

[Norm F]

Interesting,

i thought i had seen this award before and if i am not mistaken it appears to be the same badge that appeared on an S&L salesboard that was for sale at "e-medals".

Norm,do have any images of this salesboard?
I think this is the only one i saved.
Can we determine if it is period or postwar from the other images of the board?

Regards,Martin.

Hi Martin,

Perhaps we should be careful of the term "salesboard" and its implications. In contrast to the professional-looking sales cases that also have cropped up from time to time, my understanding from our previous discussions is these rougher-looking "collection boards" were put together as souvenirs post-war in occupied Lüdenscheid. It's quite possible (likely even) they weren't meant to display individual samples for individual sale but rather were bartered holus-bolus as an instant collection for the occupying soldiers.

They're nevertheless probably all original badges IMO, but likely a combination of leftover unsold badges and badges assembled post-war from leftover parts. I think that post-war assembly would account for the very atypical nature of that S&L HK, in which case you would expect measurements and a weight close to wartime samples.

Certainly a very interesting badge.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Aside from the S&L zinc U-boat badge on that board, the most interesting and potentially controversial KM badge to me is the zinc Destroyer with a vertical needle pin setup.

It's certainly similar to the S&L tombak Destroyer in obverse appearance yet we've never seen a zinc S&L to my knowledge. Interestingly, it's also similar to the zinc flatback maker's Destroyer which also has a vertical round wire main pin, but you can see that the wire attachment to the hinge is different on this Lüdenscheid Destroyer than on the flatbacks. A mystery...

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

Look guys - found same unusual reverse setup with question mark round wire catch soldered directly to the badge (no base plate) on this zinc unmarked S&L HSF from Kai's website. So at least reverse setup seems ok here. The globe still raises questions though.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

Hi Hubert,

Right you are. I forgot this was one of the standard setups on the S&L Fleet Badge (another example in my files originally from M-B).

I don't doubt now that the HK that started this thread is an S&L, albeit never worn by any German sailor. Nevertheless I'm still unhappy with the quality. When it comes to badges on such sample boards, one has no way of knowing whether the badge was assembled pre- or post-May 8, 1945, so in the end you have to make a subjective decision about whether you feel the quality of the materials, assembly and finish is what you'd expect on an official late war issue.

For me, that Hilfskreuzer falls short as an "official" wartime badge. I think it's still a legitimate collector's item as a Lüdenscheid-assembled S&L, good for a specialty collection, as long as one recognizes it for what it is -- either a late-wartime unissued poor quality effort or a post-war assembled badge, mounted on a souvenir board for display.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Came across this old compilation posted by robert60446.

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

Well, wait for Martin to weigh in, but I have concerns.

Similar to S&L but not like any other I've seen. On the reverse, the wavy striations are strange, the "question mark" catch is sometimes seen on S&L tombak badges but not on zincers, and the rivet is wrong. On the obverse, the the Viking's helmet differs from S&L and the globe is shrunken, exposing the upper rim of the backing.

Best regards,
---Norm

So just to make my reversal official , although I continue to be unimpressed with the quality of the assembly, contrary to what I stated earlier, I fully accept that the HK badge that started this thread is an original unissued Steinhauer & Lück, as Mike and Josef said from the beginning, and as Martin pointed out was on the post-war Lüdenscheid souvenir board.

Here's a 25-page thread in the cross section on these Lüdenscheid souvenir boards for interesting reading.

Best regards,
---Norm