U-BOAT Badge with Diamonds

[Martyn1]

Yes, checking Gordon's latest book, War Badges of the Kriegsmarine, and a couple other sources, there were prototype (never issued) first pattern S-boat badges with diamonds and a number of second pattern badges with diamonds.

Thanks for the post.

John

Hello John,the one which Klug had and wore was stated to have been made by the jeweller from scratch,wish I could find the catalogue it had a great photo of him wearing the badge

Martyn.

[John R.]

That would be interesting to see. John

[Dietrich Maerz]

I have an extremely hard time believing that the well known and proud company of Schwerin made special badges with Diamonds for the Großadmiral Raeder, delivered and charged for them but did not (against the law, the pride of a jeweller and every common sense and practice) silver stamp them? So when Raeder asked why he should pay for a silver badge which is not marked (against the law) they told him" yes! We just didn't feel like good jewellers to stamp this badge. We rather want to give the impression that it is Tombak!" And Rader said "Well, that makes sense! Good enough for my heros! Just call me back and tell me the silver content. Is it 800, 835, 850, 900 or 935? Just curious."

The two badges in the KM book by Weber/Skora which are allegedly attributed to Emmermann and Lüth are listed with "Tombak". Williamson clearly states the first type is Tombak (no stamp), the second type is silver (but no stamp!). There must be a weight difference and I would hope that his categoric statement is based on some actual proof and not just a lore that has been repeated over the years. How many badges were tested and how many were silver w/o a stamp - that is the question.

And to make one thing clear: I have no doubt about the provenance, the correctness and all that about the majority of theses badges. I just think they are made of Tombak, maybe with a silver coating. A real silver badge is stamped in Germany, just as all the other badges made of silver are.

If dealer would like to sell you a badge w/o a stamp and he would say "But it is silver!" - would you buy it?

Anybody any convincing data?

[JustinG]

The badge posted earlier is currently offered for sale at a mere $40,000.

Regards,
JustinG

[Bob Hritz]

Deep casting pits, in many of these badges, leaves me rather cold.

I like the badge Stan has, without all those pesky casting holes and flaws.

I know of one, in the hands of a US veteran I knew. It was tombak with the small cover swastika. I tried, for decades, to buy it, but the vet wanted his son to have it.

Bob Hritz

[John R.]

Deep casting pits, in many of these badges, leaves me rather cold.

I like the badge Stan has, without all those pesky casting holes and flaws.

I know of one, in the hands of a US veteran I knew. It was tombak with the small cover swastika. I tried, for decades, to buy it, but the vet wanted his son to have it.

Bob Hritz

Assuming you are referring to the first " type " as described by Gordon, it would have been a nice addition to your collection Bob.

If it was a standard issue type, in other words a converted tombak badge with the a diamonds swaz cover over the existing swaz, it would raise some doubts IMO.

The same would apply to a converted zinc badge.

John

[John R.]

This one is for sale now at Hermann Historica. As in the case of Stan's badge, the Merten badge is gilded but it is not a standard issue/private purchase tombak Schwerin as can be clearly seen here.

It does not have a silver content mark so who knows what the base metal might be.

[John R.]

Deep casting pits, in many of these badges, leaves me rather cold.
Bob Hritz

I have to agree Bob.

John

[frankandfrank]

For all how want to buy a original diamonds u-boat badge with provience

It start to sell: in www.hermann-historica.com

Number: 8959

Startprice is 20.000 Euro

Also his knights cross with oakleaves: 20.000 Euro

Big oakleaves Mappe : 40.000 Euro

All is coming from oakleaves winner: Karl-Friedrich Merten

[John R.]

For all how want to buy a original diamonds u-boat badge with provience

It start to sell: in www.hermann-historica.com

Number: 8959

Startprice is 20.000 Euro

Also his knights cross with oakleaves: 20.000 Euro

Big oakleaves Mappe : 40.000 Euro

All is coming from oakleaves winner: Karl-Friedrich Merten

Yes, same badge as I posted above.

[Norm F]

In the Soldbuch entries, more than a year after his U-Boat with Diamonds, is the awarding of the KVKII, but it seems odd to receive a lowly KVKII after such a high honour as the U-Boat with Diamonds. What does that say after the KVKII -- looks like it was "mit something"? Can anyone figure that out?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Don D.]

He got both the KVK1+2 with swords after he got his diamond badge. He already had the EK1+2 so unless he did something for a higher award there really wasn't much left to award him with.

[Ludwig]

In the Soldbuch entries, more than a year after his U-Boat with Diamonds, is the awarding of the KVKII, but it seems odd to receive a lowly KVKII after such a high honour as the U-Boat with Diamonds. What does that say after the KVKII -- looks like it was "mit something"? Can anyone figure that out?

Best regards,
---Norm

It´s "m. Schw." With swords. Merten, at that time, had another job, so he no longer received the pure frontline decorations.

[Stan]

U-Boat Badge with Diamonds

Dietrich makes a very interesting point with regards to these badges not being hallmarked with the silver stamp but exceptions were indeed made.

Munich jeweller Otto Gahr produced hundreds of Totenkopf rings which were made of silver and yet, as far as I know, none were hallmarked.

Stan

[Dietrich Maerz]

Stan,

it is a common practice in our hobby (and not just in our hobby) to explain one oddity with another one and therefore subconsciously elevate both to a state of normality. That is not scientific and really doesn't help.

This case here is not an earth shattering one. What I suspect is plain and simple this: the badges are made of Tombak and at some time somebody elevated the material to silver. Since this sounds more fitting, more expensive, more romantic everybody went for it, especially the people owning one.

Fact is this after some research: nobody knows and nobody has any solid proof either way and in this case the facts go against silver. (what grade? 531?)

However, that makes the badge not less valuable at all. It is just a question of knowing.

Dietrich