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    #1

    Minesweeper ID help

    Hi,
    can someone help me tell if this badge is any good?
    I have searched the whole forum and did not find a similar setup on a minesweeper.
    The hardware looks like Sh.u.Co. even the catch has the same beveled ends.
    But again, I did not find any on the forum and there is a big flaw on the swaz.

    Any help is appreciated.











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    #2
    Hi Fer K,

    That's a classic example of the "unknown flatback" maker. Although unknown, this maker made a wide range of badges in this style, the classic features being mostly flat backs, often with striations across the reverse, this typical setup and a high degree of hand finishing resulting in varying outlines between examples. It's not SHuCo since there's also a flatback Destroyer which is completely different from the known marked SHuCo Destroyers.

    Studying the minesweepers I now tend towards another Lüdenscheid maker, possibly Schauerte & Hohfeld, but this is pure speculation at this point and far from certain, and there is some conflicting evidence in the Heer badges regarding the S&H theory.

    They're reasonably common.

    Best regards,
    ---Norm

    I'll repost your photos from the host server.
    Attached Files

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      #3
      Thank you, Norm!
      That was really helpful!

      Comment

        #4
        Exactly as Norm said, typical and quite common "Flat back".

        This variant was described in first Sasha Weber minesweeper book, but again wrongly attributed do Shuco, while Shuco is more likely to be a maker of so called “Straight wave” variant.

        Kind regards,
        Hubert



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          #5
          The rest of the photos of Fer K's badge.
          Attached Files

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            #6
            The photo of the catch was technically quite strange. I lightened it up with Photoshop, revealing all kinds of odd scuff marks on the photo, but at least it makes it easier to see the catch.
            Attached Files

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              #7
              Fer K's flatback example has a finish similar to the early zinc S&L's while mine here has the late wartime finish similar to the later S&L and later F&B zinc badges.

              You can see the highly variable hand finishing to the edges on these badges - more so than in any other maker's production - which makes them a convenient target for fakers since they don't have to match a rigid design. One also finds variations in the tooling of the round wire catch and sometimes in the shape of the catch plate. Most had a gilded reverse but some variants seem to have silvered reverses (if they're real).

              Cheers.
              ---Norm
              Attached Files
              Last edited by Norm F; 12-08-2010, 10:32 PM.

              Comment

                #8
                Thank you Bubba for that scan!
                Norm, I scanned the badge that's why the picture has smudges.
                Also the upward stream of water is different between yours and mine, mine looks like the book picture posted by Bubba.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Fer K View Post
                  ... the upward stream of water is different between yours and mine, mine looks like the book picture posted by Bubba.
                  You'll notice that the obverse characteristics of the water plume are identical, but that the hand finishing/filing of the edges results in an entirely different contour -- this applies to all the internal and external margins of the badge as well. Like I said, this variability is a feature of the flatback maker, and this finishing process removes the tell-tale edge striations of die striking so that it's potentially more difficult to tell fakes and genuine badges apart.

                  When you look closely at several examples, you can see how the edges differ slightly from badge to badge.

                  Cheers.
                  ---Norm
                  Attached Files

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                    #10
                    You did it again, thank you Norm!
                    If you want any further pictures for your reference, just let me know.

                    Comment

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