1st Pattern S-boot by Moritz Hausch

[Leroy]

Tom - I don't have Tucker's book or images of an 'MH' marked flight clasp, unfortunately.

One thing that is interesting to me (and I think other KM collectors) is the possible time frame for continued production of the first pattern S-Boat, which really is unknown. Of the makers of the first pattern, only Schwerin and Mayer went on to make a 2nd pattern (although it is speculated that F&B may have). With the exception of Schwerin, the other makers always used zinc, leading to conjecture that they only became producers sometime in 1942, perhaps only months before the introduction of the second pattern in the first month of 1943. I suppose the real question has to be how much production of the first pattern was done after January, 1943. All the first patterns are rare, IMO, and even second patterns are not abundant. If Hausch was a supplier only to the PKZ (for award purposes) and not certified for private sale (it had a PKZ number but not an LDO number) aren't we looking at an extremely short possible period for Hausch production of the first pattern?

[Thomas Durante]

Hi John,

The picture on page 102 of Tucker's book is just of the maker mark. He doesn't show the entire badge unfortunately. However, I do remember seeing pics of an MH-marked flight clasp here on WAF back in 2005 or 2006. If you or anyone else can find pics showing the entire clasp, I would love to see them.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Gordon was kind enough to provide a closeup of the maker mark (thanks Gordon!).

As far as I can tell, the maker mark is an exact match to the MH mark we find on the fakes. Its hard to be 100% sure because the S-boat mark is double-struck, but there are enough indicators to me to see that they are identical in my opinion. See the compare I did to the fake IAB, specifically the right leg of the "H" is always shorter than the other leg and the legs of the "M". Also note that the tops of the "M" are different sizes, the left one being thicker than the right one.

The MH-marked CCC & PAB fakes have the same identical maker mark, so it would appear that ALL of these MH-marked badges have the exact same maker mark. If we know for sure that the CCC & PABs are definately fakes, and the IAB is most certainly a fake, then I think by deductive reasoning we can say the same for the S-boat badge for the simple reason that the exact same tool was used to make the mark on all these badges. The tool used to make this mark is a fingerprint of all these fake badges IMO.

It is extremely difficult for a faker to match a maker mark 100%. Think about the Juncker maker mark, it is probably the most famous mark we talk about on forums and god knows that fakers have been trying for decades to get it right. However, they still haven't been able to get it 100% correct in all aspects in my opinion. That is also with the benefit of modern technology on their side, so the fact that the maker marks are identical on all these MH-badges bodes very badly for them given the fact that these were done at least 30+ years ago.

As far as the hardware goes, it looks good and I really can't fault it. I will say that the stripe on the top of the catch is a characteristic of S&L badges (both wartime and postwar). I usually encounter it on postwar S&L badges, but I have seen it on wartime badges as well. So my thought there is that its leftover wartime hardware. This is interesting and ties in with Norm's thought earlier about the fact that in the 1970s, S&L badges were popping up with spurious maker marks. This is certainly true with the LW Paratrooper badges, which can be found mark for L/56 and L/12. What is also interesting is that these 1970 S&L reproductions are made with believable zinc materials and believable hardware that is very similar to what they used in the war. We can say the exact same thing about this S-boat badge, it has believable zinc base metal with believable wartime hardware, but with a spurious maker mark......and was obtained in the 1970s....

Tom

[104]

1st Pattern S-boot by Moritz Hausch

Hi :
recently I have acquired a 1st Pattern S-boot by Moritz Hausch , which really looks good and is a close to a Schwerin. The measurements are H 56.70, W 44, WT 30 g. It also looks different than the one's in the photos on this thread. Can anyone out there provide any additional comments on this badge.

Jack

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Jack,

Please post some pics of your badge, sound promising.

If you cannot, you can always email me the pics and I will post for you tmdurante@gmail.com

Tom

[Norm F]

Jack (104) has emailed me the photos of his badge and consented they be posted for discussion so here they are.

The lighting of the photos caused a yellow cast so I'm posting both the uncorrected and a colour-corrected version for the obverse and reverse.

First uncorrected.

[Norm F]

now with some colour correction provided.

[Norm F]

another obverse shot and closeup of the waves.

[Norm F]

eagle

[Norm F]

more.

[Norm F]

hardware

[Norm F]

Mh

[Norm F]

Comparison to the badge from the start of the thread. Jack's has better detail but unfortunately also more obverse pitting in the process. Note on the reverse there are similar blobs but in different locations -- below the catch on the left badge and to the left of the top hook on the right badge.

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Jack, thanks for sending Norm your pics and thanks to Norm for taking the time to post them for us.

Looks to be some pretty serious pitting, especially on the obverse boat area. Interesting to see the waffle-press marks not only on the eagle, but also on the acorns in the wreath..........we see the exact same thing on the MH CCCs.

Tom

[Norm F]

Interesting to see the waffle-press marks not only on the eagle, but also on the acorns in the wreath..........we see the exact same thing on the MH CCCs.

Tom

Hi Tom,

I see from your past threads that you felt the fake FLL CCCs came from the same source as the fake MH CCCs since they share the same obverse design and both show variable "cuts" and lattice patterns in the acorns.

To recap here's an "MH" CCC compared with the fake "FLL" CCC. Also here's a comparison of two of the fake "MH" CCCs showing variability in the lattice and small cuts in the acorn caps.