U-boat / Subbadge -Who is that maker?

[Max_Porter]

....

[Max_Porter]

.....

[Max_Porter]

......

[Max_Porter]

...

[Max_Porter]

and the last ones. Thank You.

[John R.]

Max, anything is possible. As I have said often on this forum, we do not know everything about these badges.

We used to have a member, Genoa from Italy, now no longer posting, that every single day almost would post an unmarked unseen before U-boat badge for comments.

Not sure what he wanted to hear or where he found these.

Since the fakes are getting better, we should try to stick with accepted badges, not one of a kind examples.

Yours is one of a kind and that makes it very hard to discuss.

However, many fakes are made without any thought to genuine examples. They bear no resemblance to originals and even have fake maker marks to makers who did not exist or did not make KM badges. So that alone is not enough to make your badge original.

John

[John R.]

I admit, your badge looks better and better with every new image you post however, original or not, it is a stand alone badge with no others of this type in our database.

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

Just noticed another "Foerster & Beco" badge like Max_Porter's on the latest Weitze update. As mentioned before, these share some features with the Pforzheim F&B design and some of the hand finishing techniques of Beco yet are not from the dies of either of those makers.

For now, I prefer to call this unusual design the "Angry Bird".

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

more views

[Norm F]

Like Max_Porter's the edges are hand sawn -- no shear marks.

[Norm F]

Compare and contrast to the Beco. Here are the two "Angry Bird" examples and two marked Becos for comparison -- different eagle.

[Norm F]

Sub comparison. Two "Angry Birds" on top and two marked Becos below. Similar to the Beco but different in the small details, and the "Angry Birds" have horizontal grinding striations on the conning tower and gun and at the bottom of the hull at the keel. It conforms to the same "Type 5" obverse design category in the U-Boat classification system.

[Norm F]

The eagle head compared to Beco and to F&B. You can see that the brow and eye of the "Angry Bird" is a little closer to F&B than to Beco (although its own variation).

[Norm F]

Here's a third example of the "Angry Bird", this one from an old posting by "Genoa41" on GMIC several years back. The same horizontal striations are apparent on the conning tower. The swastikas are very widely cut out. The main pins and catches all seem slightly different from example to example.

Despite that they're well made, they still make me uneasy. We know from Max_Porter they've been around at least 25 years, but that doesn't rule out early high quality reproductions.

Best regards,
---Norm