U-boat / Subbadge -Who is that maker?

[Max_Porter]

Hello and good evening,

will you please help me with identifying the maker of that sub badge, please?

It is a very fine quality and the colour of the gilding is going into a reddish brown, it´s darkend a little bit, but it is very nice.

But it does´nt fit with those makers I know.

Can you help me? Thank you and

Best Regards

Max_Porter

[Max_Porter]

and still two other pics:

[Max_Porter]

Hello,

really no ideas who produced it?


Thanx in advance and regards

Max_Porter

[dan734]

Sorry, but it is a fake

[Norm F]

Hi Max,

I'm afraid there is no known tombak U-boat badge in this design. It appears to me to be a well-made copy of the F&B zinc badge design rendered in a light brass-type metal, and with Schwerin-like hardware applied.

Let's see what the others say. Could you post photos of the edges, as well as the weight and the dimensions (height, width, wing span)?

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

This is a fake IMO. If you do a search on this forum, you will not find another example of what you have posted, but the search function is there for you to use.

Take a look at the gun mount. Far too high for any KM badge is another thing besides what Norm said above.

The finish is terrible and it looks like it was filed across the front. Not the way an original would look.

John

[dan734]

Hi Max,

I'm afraid there is no known tombak U-boat badge in this design. It appears to me to be a well-made copy of the F&B zinc badge design rendered in a light brass-type metal, and with Schwerin-like hardware applied.

Let's see what the others say. Could you post photos of the edges, as well as the weight and the dimensions (height, width, wing span)?

Best regards,
---Norm

I think it is a copy of ultra-rare Beco marked uboat, but the eagle's head looks awful on the photo, while the gun mount is routher high on Beco too. The pin and swas also resembles one on Beco. Max, is it possible that you make scans?

[John R.]

Quite right about the Beco U-boat Dan. I forgot about that one. Here is it for reference.

The badge at the top of this thread is still a fake IMO.

John

[dan734]

Thanks for pics John! I also can't change my first opinion about the discussed badge judging by the photos the owner of the badge provided. I hope the Max can provide better pics that would show gliding and basemetal colours.
But even if all will look convincing it is almost impossible that Beco used second die in production of uboat badges (only few marked Beco uboat badges were produced and known - what reason in second die?)

[Max_Porter]

Good evening all together,

thank you very much for your comments and the discussion.

Ok, the pics I´ve made are quite bad but at the weekend I will try to make some better shots. I hope to have a useful lights then.

And: Of course I did a search through the forum and not just here, I surfed a few forums having a look for a badge like this – but I did´nt find one. I read a lot of sub badge threads. I really did´nt find a badge that correspond to this badge. That was the reason for asking here for ideas.

I looked through my photo-archives and found two really old pics of the badge I scanned for you. The pics are not really better … But have a look.

In a second step I did scans of the badge itself. Please have a look above, I think there is to see a little bit more.

To the badge itself again: It is not that bad quality the pics may suggest. It is the best quality I can imagine personally, very fine stamping of bronce (or similar material/early) with a darker or darkend fire gilding and polished highlights, a polished swastika a polisher submarine body and turret. In the deep there is a frosty gilding everywhere. I see a lot of similarities to the beco badge here but the head is quite different.

It´s dimensions are: 49 x 39,5 mm, the eagles wingspan at the top 31,8 mm. At my kitchen balance it´s weight is 22 gr.

If you would held it in your hands you could see the quality of that badge and it has nothing in common with every copy I ever saw in my life. For your interest: I have the badge in my collection for 22 years now, so if it´s a copy it´s not a new one.

Maybe you will come to another conclusion with the scans or hopefully better pics at the weekend but: if this really turnes out as a copy I should think about ending collecting. Still I´m convinced of it to be a nice original.

Thank you again for your help and best regards

Max_Porter

[Max_Porter]

the scans

and scan 1 + 2

[Max_Porter]

last scan

and the last: scan 3.

Happy to discuss.

[Norm F]

I think it is a copy of ultra-rare Beco marked uboat, but the eagle's head looks awful on the photo, while the gun mount is routher high on Beco too. The pin and swas also resembles one on Beco. Max, is it possible that you make scans?

Hi Yuri,

I had initially discounted Beco because of the eagle head, but you're absolutely right that the rest of the badge is a pretty good match. I guess this is what happens when you mate a tombak Beco with a zinc F&B -- you get a bastard "Foerster & Beco".

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

Still does not look like period work I think. Look at the propellers--hardly any definition. The file marks on the conning tower and elsewhere. Yes, depending on the how the photo is taken, it makes the badge look different, but it still does not match any other known example, the lack of definition, and the Beco style badge with the wrong eagle.

Bottom line, with the way fakes are being produced today and even in the past, I think you must stick with known and accepted examples. I see no way that anybody could make by discussion this badge into a period example--too many problems with it.

John

[Max_Porter]

Hello all together,

I´ve done my best doing some new pics. Take a look, please. What´s disturbing me is that if this should be a copy why did someone copy a badge which is not existing/which has no prototype?

Hmm, ok, we will see...

Thanx for looking and best regards

Max_Porter