uboat

[wh014d4394]

its only up on german ebay.at 100 euros so far i just love these 100pc genuine badges what a gem

[wh014d4394]

i want it.i want it.it must be the sea salt.thats tarnished the badges??

[Norm F]

That's actually potentially a really interesting artifact. It looks like it could be a legitimate home-made memorial to a dramatic event in history.

Check out this link on Joachim Matz and the U-70.

I can't find the e-bay listing. What's the description?

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

http://cgi.ebay.de/U-Boot-Holzmodell...item53e256c851

[Norm F]

Thanks John.
Well, who knows when it was made but it's nicely done. Too bad it doesn't come with more provenance.

---Norm

[münster]

Hey! Thats a nice item!

[Frank K]

Yes, nice item but the U70 was a type VIIC and was launched and commisioned in 1940?

[wh014d4394]

Hey! Thats a nice item!

you saying the badges are right

[Norm F]

Yes, nice item but the U70 was a type VIIC and was launched and commisioned in 1940?

Good point, Frank. It was "ordered" in 1938 but why would someone think that date was important for the plaque?

Jimmy: No one is suggesting the badges are real official badges, but they could be ship-made or POW-made facsimiles -- just no way to know for sure. Even if the whole thing was made only 20 years ago it's a cool memorial. It would be more meaningful if there was a verifiable personal story to go with it.

I must say though it's odd that the seller claims the needles were removed for mounting the badges --- how could he know that?

Cheers.
---Norm

[wh014d4394]

Good point, Frank. It was "ordered" in 1938 but why would someone think that date was important for the plaque?

Jimmy: No one is suggesting the badges are real official badges, but they could be ship-made or POW-made facsimiles -- just no way to know for sure. Even if the whole thing was made only 20 years ago it's a cool memorial. It would be more meaningful if there was a verifiable personal story to go with it.

I must say though it's odd that the seller claims the needles were removed for mounting the badges --- how could he know that?

Cheers.
---Norm

ship made. are POW??? why make the pins for the back.thats a mock up to catch some sucker.if you go to the listing.you can see the top pin barrel.on the uboat badge

[Norm F]

...
thats a mock up to catch some sucker.
...

Possibly. But there exist genuine examples of cast badge replicas, made on board or by German POWs, to replace lost awards, complete with various rudimentary or ad hoc pin systems. The problem of course, is that decades later, without known provenance, you can't know when they were produced or with what intent.

Kapitänleutnant Matz spent 6 years in a POW camp along with the other survivors of the sub.

Looking at the seller's other items now, it seems he's an old furniture dealer, and probably knows nothing about militaria and wouldn't know a real badge from a reproduction -- just sees a pin setup on the back and assumes it was a badge.

I think "Bj." stands for Baujahr, year of construction. U70 was ordered in May, 1938 and "laid down" in December, 1939. I wonder when precisely, from a shipyard worker's or a sailor's viewpoint you would call the time of construction -- the official date or when they first started working on it. At any rate, it seems like the model builder was a bit off.

All that aside, it's being sold without any personal story or attempt at provenance, other than the guess that it was made after the war. It boils down to how much one wants to spend on a neat hand-made fairly accurate German U-boat model commemorating the sinking of U70 and it's commander.

---Norm

[Frank K]

I think "Bj." stands for Baujahr, year of construction. U70 was ordered in May, 1938 and "laid down" in December, 1939. I wonder when precisely, from a shipyard worker's or a sailor's viewpoint you would call the time of construction -- the official date or when they first started working on it. At any rate, it seems like the model builder was a bit off.
---Norm

Correct Norm, BJ is baujahr. It's in the description on Ebay. Imo it's the date of commisioning that counts. Not when it's ordered, the keel is laid out etc but when the ship is delivered to the navy, the flag is hoisted for the first time and the ship goes into the navy records. Something like that

Anyway, my own feeling is that the boat may be real (pow, sailor on the boat, ?) but the plate is added later for extra spice. The structure of the wood on the plate looks different plus what has a naval combat clasps to do with U70? The crew had been in a pow camp for years when it was introduced?

[John R.]

Jimmy, Norm and everybody else. I think that both badges could be just rusted out glued on real badges. Do you think they are wood carvings or some type of molded badge hand made?

What do we think here?

John

[wh014d4394]

Jimmy, Norm and everybody else. I think that both badges could be just rusted out glued on real badges. Do you think they are wood carvings or some type of molded badge hand made?

What do we think here?

John

there cast copys.you can bet on that.interesting thread. what if a POW came in to the camp.lets say 44 45.and lent his clasp to be copied??

[John R.]

Could have been after 45 since this Captain was kept as a POW until 47.

John