U-Boat Clasp

[TobyR]

Hi Everyone,

This was sent to me today by a fellow forum member who has offered it to me in trade. Apparently, it was veteran acquired and removed from a so-called hate belt. As we all know though, buy the item and not the story.

First impressions: a fake.

Above all it doesn't look to be made of zinc but rather a white metal with a copper based coating and some sort of applied gilt finish. As far as I'm aware these badges were only ever made in zinc. It seems quite heavy and I even wonder if it is lead. I've tried "writing" with the edges but nothing.

In addition to the incorrect base metal, the detailing looks rather flat and there are fault lines across portions of the badge. Close but no cigar IMHO.

As I say though, it belongs to a forum member, and rather than me alone telling him it is a fake, I would appreciate the thoughts of others.

Thanks for looking.

All the best,
Toby.

[TobyR]

Notice the white and copper coloured metals peeking through on the eagle's head and along the top of the wings.

[TobyR]

more

[TobyR]

bubbling to the finish (the only resemblance I can see to a zinc badge)

[AndyC]

Well this one i dont like to 100% it have very soft details.
Lets hear what others could say about this one



Andy

[TobyR]

Thanks for your comment.

Also notice the presence of a white residue in the crevices of the badge.

[wh014d4394]

pics come on lets be having a gander.ups sorry you must have been loading

[rhudspith]

Don't think I would be so quick to bin this one yet, any chance of a straight on shot of the back with the pin down and some dimensions and weight.

have the sides of the hinge been ground down?

[John R.]

Toby,

This one looks like it is period to me. I agree with Rob, I would like to see a straight down shot with the pin down to compare the pin with period examples.

The bubbling, pin, hinge and catch plus the letters look right to me.

If the pin is OK, then this badge is OK.

All that said, I would not want this example since something has happened to the finish that makes it unattractive.

I just do not think this is a piece most collectors would want in their collection based on finish--I have no idea how that happened, but something did happen IMO to an original badge.

John

[TobyR]

Rob, John,

Many thanks for your replies.

I did make a few more photos this morning: unfortunately, not with the pin down. Nevertheless, they may be of some use.

I have been discussing the badge with a few other collectors and nobody can see anything amiss other than the finish.

In fact, a friend suggested that the obverse has been heavily cleaned. This would make sense since I am told the badge was once on a "Hate Belt" and veterans (unfortunately) liked to clean the badges on their belts. I can also see what looks like the remains of polish in the recesses of the obverse.

I agree the issues with the finish must surely damage its collector appeal and with it value. I will certainly take this into account, should I decide to trade for it.

Thanks again for your help.

All the best,
Toby.

PS I'll have to add the photos later - they need resizing first and dinner awaits!

[Jeff V]

I also believe this one to be an original. Measurements should confirm it one way or another.
best wishes,
jeff

[John R.]

Toby,

After talking with Jeff a bit about this badge, it could also be looking worse than it is by the way it was photographed. I would like to see a natural lighting shot vice flash or strong indoor light. Using flash with a white background can distort the badge finish.

I prefer to see a natural sunlight shot with a white background using a shadowbox--like a piece of white cardboard manipulated in such a way as to make the sunlight a bit indirect--to a flash photo. This also means the shadow effect is removed from the image.

Note Jody's image below.

John

[Jody]

U-boat Clasp

Hello,
I have to say that the badge looks good. It looks like someone buffed it with a cloth.

It does look like the sides of the hinge were gorund down. How does your hinge compare to my hinge. Notice the edges of my hinge.

Regards,
Jody

[John R.]

Jody,

My only conclusion on the ground down sides to the hinges, as on your example and mine and most others by Schwerin, is that they were trimming the hinge pin on both sides. So they cut down through the hinge pin and hinge mount to the base of the hinge mounting.

John

[Wood]

As you all say, it looks OK, but has anyone else a polished example to show, my bronze is near mint, but where the hook on mine was crushed and pushed into the base metal, I can see no evidece of a copper colour only zinc. My worn silver just has the zinc base metal showing through the silver coating.
Pete