U-Boot badge

[Ostbat]

Gentlemen's,
Who the manufacturer of this unmarked badge?
Thanks.
Igor.

[Mike Kenny]

Based on the hardware, I'd suggest S&L. I don't recall seeing similar hardware on a tombak badge before. The detail on the eagle looks poor but everything else looks OK. I'll be intersted to hear what others have to say.

Regards
Mike

[mrg]

Hi very interesting award, very much in the K&Q style of set up.Eagle, hinge, pin are a match for their design, but have never seen that style of catch. The award also looks Tombac in style. is that true or just the pics? Have to say not sure on this one. Measurement would be good if possible. All the best

[Ostbat]

Hi mrg,
Yes, it tombac. 39mm tall, 48mm wide.
Regards,
Igor.

[Norm F]

Hi Igor,

This was being discussed on GCA as well in the Kriegsmarine section, and definitely worth getting opinions here at WAF. Same obverse design as used by W&L, K&Q and S&L on zinc U-boat badges, but the rare tombak versions are unmarked and so could be by any of these three.

Having said that here are just a couple of examples of S&L 4-marked Spanish crosses posted by Association members in the Cross forum here, a silver posted by Gabenn and a bronze posted by DougO...

Best regards,
---Norm

[Tim B.]

Well, it "could be" S&L, but there are some noticable differences from the period catalog by them; most notably the pin lenght is short and the swastika is filled in on the piece shown.

Interesting though and I would think Ludenshied for manufacturer again.
Tim

[Norm F]

Hi Tim,

For alll three KM badges in the 1940 S&L catalogue (Destroyer, U-boat and minesweeper), the images are of Schwerin-design badges in contrast to S&L's own production lines. It seems the catalogue was put into print before S&L had their own badges to depict.

Nevertheless, it is interesting that the eagle's head on the drawing is more like what we call the "W&L" design with hooked beak. Although we assume the master die originated from one of S&L, W&L or less likely K&Q, it's also conceivable it could have originated with Schwerin who supplied all three with production dies. We just don't know at this time.

Here's the zinc U-boat attributed to S&L from the sample board that sold on eMedals a while back. Very much like the rare W&L 100-marked and K&Q 65-marked badges depicted in "Torpedo Los", although the W&L had the longer pin.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Tim B.]

Hi Norm,

Yes, we may never really know the truth short of getting good period references or perhaps sample boards similar to what Deumer had; even then...?

Best,
Tim

[Ostbat]

Thanks you, Gentlemen's!

Regards,
Igor.

[AndyC]

This one was not so easy, i,ll just learn some more


Andy

[Norm F]

I just realized the photos of the U-boat badge at the start of this thread are on an external server. Just re-uploading them so they don't lost from the forum.

[Norm F]

And here's another double-marked S&L EK1 with the same hardware.

[Norm F]

Here's another example of this U-boat badge from the Weitze website, with the identical hinge and pin but this time with a "question-mark" round wire catch.

[Norm F]

And this S&L EK1 seems to have the same tooling mark on the top of the pin as seen on the U-boats. In fact the pin on the U-boat seems to be the same one as on the EK1 but shortened for the smaller badge. (BTW, this same hinge and pin with the same tooling mark is also seen on the Hymmen tombak U-boat, another Lüdenscheid maker albeit with a totally different obverse design of course. They likely had the same supplier.)

[Norm F]

And here are both catch types as seen on those tombak U-boat badges, here on a variety of S&L badges.