Minesweeper ID

[Josko]

Hi guys, I've been trying to ID the maker of this minesweeper without much luck.

Much appreciate if anyone could have a look and let me know what they think

Thanks

Joseph

[Josko]

Pics 3 and 4

[Norm F]

Hi Joseph,

These zinc minesweepers are currently unattributed, although it is my theory that they may be by Paul Meybauer, Berlin.

There is a long thread on GCA which includes a discussion on these badges at:
http://www.germancombatawards.com/th...?threadid=5424

Although the trimming outlines don't completely match Meybauer's Tombak minesweeper, there are close similarities in trimming style, and as well the finish is very similar. The catch on yours is a less common variant since most of them have a bent C round wire catch, but both of these catch types are used by a variety of makers, including Meybauer. The distinctive wide pin type hardware and hinge block is also used by more than one maker but the whole setup with the round wire C catch is seen on Meybauer's late KVK1s and EK1s, while the earlier very distinctive setup on Meybauer's Tombak minesweeper is seen on his early EK1s.

These have sometimes been attributed to B.H. Mayer, but Mayer-marked zinc minesweepers, although similar, are clearly different from these unmarked badges and there's no reason to suspect he would produce two different lines of zinc badges simultaneously and only mark one type.

Likewise, the Lüdenscheid makers, Hymmen and Deumer used a similar pin, and also sometimes used that non-specific catch, but again their known minesweeper badges are quite different from these zincers, making it less likely.

So for now I call these badges "possibly attributed to Meybauer", but that's just me. I've seen several of these popping up recently but yours is quite a nice one with more of it's original finish than you often see.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Josko]

Fantastic review Norm and I much appreciate you taking the time to go to such detail for me!

Thank you very much, at least now you have narrowed my search quite a bit and I can follow up and do some more research.

Kindest regards

Joseph

[Norm F]

In a thread in the Luftwaffe section, Andreas pointed out how many different makers used a very similar catch. Keeping this in mind, for what it's worth though, here is his previously posted catch from an L/13 marked Meybauer badge (not sure which type of badge) which is an excellent match to the catch on Joseph's minesweeper. Just one piece of evidence, not at all conclusive on its own, but useful in combination with other observations.

Cheers.
---Norm

[Norm F]

Here you see a comparison of the hinge-block on a tombak Meybauer minesweeper and Joseph's minesweeper badge. Both these badges have the same obverse design but differences in trimming outline. They use different pins, but you can see the similarity in the finish used on these badges.

[Norm F]

Here is my tombak Meybauer on the left and Joseph's zinc minesweeper on the right. You can see they use an identical obverse design although some differences in trimming outline. Again, keep in mind that other makers used this obverse design as well such as Mayer, F&B and S&L, but again it's one factor of several to consider.
Also notice how the wear pattern of the finish is almost identical, exposing the tombak highlights on the left badge and zinc highlights on the right badge.

[Norm F]

Here's the comparison of the reverse and hardware. Again, different trimming outlines but stylistic similarity and similar finish.
Also here you see a collage of Meybauer maker-marked pins to see how they evolved.
All this evidence is suggestive yet not conclusive of the Meybauer connection to zinc minesweepers like Joseph's. At best I can say that there is no other known minesweeper maker that provides a better match on all these features -- which doesn't rule out some other unknown maker of minesweepers.

Regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

In this collage, you see two examples in the upper left of the more usual round wire catch found on these unmarked zinc minesweepers, compared with similar catches found on various marked Meybauer badges. Again, bear in mind this is a fairly generic type of catch.

[John R.]

Outstanding research Norm. John

[hobby-forum]

Hi guys!

And is it Meybauer's CA, what do you think about?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...45#post4277145

[Norm F]

An additional comparison for this thread.
A typical example of the round wire catch on these zinc minesweeper badges seen above a matching catch on an L/13 marked zinc U-boat badge.

[Norm F]

In the left column, the 3 different types of catch found on this variety of zinc minesweeper, and in the right column, 3 matching catches on L/13-marked Meybauer badges (wound badge, KVK1 and zinc U-boat).

[Norm F]

Comparison of closeups has virtually verified that the tombak Meybauer and the wide-zinc badges are from the same obverse die, so I'm now comfortable calling the zinc MS a Meybauer. The cutouts around the head vary because the zinc badges are trimmed differently after the obverse is struck, but small obverse details are a match.

You can see in this comparison the characteristic areas of the the right eagle's foot on the swastika and the shorter leaf vein on the right that match on the two Meybauers but differ from the zinc Mayer. (Also, once again you can see similar wearing patterns in the finish on the wreath.)

[hades2004]

Ohe , I must thank Norm . Thank oyu very much . I learn many Knoeldge in this thread .
King Regards
Xiwan