Auxiliary Cruiser Opinions

[PAB_Collector]

Gentlemen,

looking for a thumbs up on this Auxiliary Cruiser Badge. Look good?


Thanks!

[JustinG]

I believe you have a nice zinc Foerster & Barth.
IMHO.

Regards,
JustinG

[DaveNZ]

I believe you have a nice zinc Foerster & Barth.
IMHO.

Regards,
JustinG

Yes have to agree with that: looks to me like a F&B

[Norm F]

Well guys, on the basis of some analysis of these particular Hilfskreuzer badges and "standing on the shoulders of giants" like Martin, Lorenzo and others at WAF and GCA, I'll now have to call this a genuine (if somewhat corroded) unmarked Steinhauer & Lück 2-piece riveted example.

This is worth a read:
http://www.germancombatawards.com/th...tuser=0&page=1

You'll find the pin on this one is magnetic, unlike the F&B pins. See Lorenzo's observations from 2003:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=L%2F21

Best regards,
---Norm

[Martin W]

Norm,

you deserve all the credit for these findings,IMO.
A great job that has opened the door for more discussion on all KM award forums.

Thanks,Martin.

[JustinG]

Wow, That was quite a thread on GCA. Quite informative.

Thanks Norm F.

Here's a link for a F&B horde which wasn't too long ago discovered.
If it contained unmarked examples of any of these awards above, it would be a great study since this would be a very complete collection of un-tampered awards and help with the GCA comparison between known S&L and F&B awards.

But if there are examples that were unmarked, it would be nice to submit them for definative research and officially tie those with the F&B with non-S&L ties perhaps.


Regards,
JustinG

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ighlight=Horde

[Norm F]

Norm,

you deserve all the credit for these findings,IMO.
A great job that has opened the door for more discussion on all KM award forums.

Thanks,Martin.

Too kind Martin. This is yet another illustration of how great forums like WAF, GCA and GMIC pull items together into something greater than the sum of their parts.

Alone, I'm just a "dot connector" obsessing about minesweepers at the moment! Observe the interaction:

First, Brian notices a tombak minesweeper with pin removed that looked exactly like his unmarked zinc "F&B" and posts them side by side. Then Tom notices that the catch on Brian's tombak is similar to those used by S&L on other badges. That gets me to comparing that badge to Gordon's unmarked tombak S&L and Bob's L/16 marked tombak S&L minesweeper. I realize that they are identical to one another and to the zincers formerly attributed to F&B which seem to be from the same die, whereas the marked F&B zincers are quite different.

Then we notice the identical "inverse taper" pins and catches from these zinc minesweepers on KM zinc HK's and CA's, that once again differ from the marked F&B zincers in each category, and it becomes apparent that these were all by the same non-F&B maker.

Then Martin, your great HK collection reveals all the different setups seen on the unmarked HK's from the same die, all 2-piece riveted construction which differs from the marked F&B one-piece examples. Then surfing the forum discussions and databases I could pick out examples of all these varied setups on various other S&L badges (except for the inverse taper pin), showing that S&L did indeed use this wide variety of hardware on their unmarked badges. Then to cap it all off Lorenzo had already shown back in 2003 the significant difference between the non-magnetic F&B inverse taper pins and the magnetic ones used on what now appear to be S&L badges.

Everyone else supplied the pieces and I just put them together!

Wow, That was quite a thread on GCA. Quite informative.

Thanks Norm F.

Here's a link for a F&B horde which wasn't too long ago discovered.
If it contained unmarked examples of any of these awards above, it would be a great study since this would be a very complete collection of un-tampered awards and help with the GCA comparison between known S&L and F&B awards.

But if there are examples that were unmarked, it would be nice to submit them for definative research and officially tie those with the F&B with non-S&L ties perhaps.


Regards,
JustinG

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ighlight=Horde

Hi Justin,

Already been done. You can see from that horde photo and other examples posted from that horde that the CA's there are the true F&B badges (with the known F&B catch) both marked and unmarked, and Brian showed they differ from the unmarked zincers with the magnetic "S&L" setup.

I expect as we look further we'll see the same scenario with the unmarked zince Destroyer and HSF badges.

Best regards,
---Norm