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**Dietrich Maerz** · 03-02-2018, 12:27 PM

Vince,

French laws to not apply to the USA. Here we have freedom of speech. All this aside, Bacqueville would need to proof that it is not true and that would be very interesting!
Do you think they would go through that process because of a bunch of posts on a US forum about Nazi stuff?

They did not sue me as a publisher nor any of the authors of the book in which their name is connected strongly to the badges!

Dietrich

**TOULON44** · 03-02-2018, 12:45 PM

Vince, it's in the context of the time when Malvaux wrote his article that I was talking about, at the time he could have been attacked for defamation that's why he does not name Bacqueville, and in the present with the forum because actually the French law on defamation does not apply to the USA.
Chris

**Norm F** · 03-02-2018, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Dietrich Maerz View Post

Part II

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC5Uq6RuE9c

For those who haven't seen Jo Rivett's 2nd video on the French-made S-Boat, it once again thoroughly and unequivocally illustrates with 30 minutes of detailed video imagery that these badges are die cast in some sort of zinc pot-metal. This, at least, is incontrovertible. He further proves that the wide main pin is also of cast construction -- something that is not typically seen in period badges.

To repeat, this an absolutely typical example of its genre, and yet the magnified surface looks like a volcanic wasteland.

Best regards,
---Norm

Attached Files

**Norm F** · 03-03-2018, 10:00 AM

While new facts and perspectives are welcomed, please note that posts that reduce debate to the personal level will be deleted.

Best regards,
—-Norm

**John R.** · 03-03-2018, 10:50 AM

Chris,

To be clear, I like much of what you say and find it interesting background for those that accept these badges as original.

Norm and me simply do not have the time to edit posts, especially long ones.

If you can stick to your narrative relating to badge background information, neither Norm or me have any objection to your comments.

It is simply a matter of time for Norm and I.

John

**John R.** · 03-03-2018, 10:52 AM

One other point, although I am often guilty of long posts too. Shorter posts are more often read than long dissertations. Keep it concise and the post will be read by more collectors. So more posts, spaced out over time, are better than one very long narrative IMO. John

**Norm F** · 03-03-2018, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by John Robinson View Post

Norm,

You are up on badge manufacturing techniques more than I but are there not mold injected late war badges produced for the LW and Heer?

Is mold injected by itself, no matter how sloppy the craftsmanship as proved by Jo, a reason to reject a badge? I know you have left the door open for authenticity (war time made) for these badges as you wait for Part 2 of the video by Jo to explain this exact point.

John

Going back to this, we do still lack one piece in the forensic puzzle.

In his S-Boat badge video, Jo Rivett shows nice micro-images illustrating the stark difference between smooth period die-struck zinc and the volcanic surface of the die cast or injection mold method used on the "French-made" badges. He further shows that the main pin is also of cast production, suggestive (if not conclusive) of a forger's technology as opposed to a wartime medal manufacturer.

Since we still don't know the year these were created, it would be most helpful if we had micro-imagery of wartime cast production to compare with these images.

If someone could send their accepted example of a wartime cast F. W. Assmann war badge (or any other known zinc wartime award) to Jo Rivett for his characteristic scrutiny, that could be very illustrative.

(I've been eyeing the market on USB microscopes but so far they're only cheap inadequate quality or prohibitively expensive good quality that doesn't work well with a Mac -- eventually will get there. Kudos to Jo Rivett for spending the time and money to pioneer in this area of phaleristics.)

Best regards,
---Norm

**TOULON44** · 03-03-2018, 11:09 AM

Ok John it's ok,
Thank you so much
Chris

**Leroy** · 03-03-2018, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by Norm F View Post

Since we still don't know the year these were created, it would be most helpful if we had micro-imagery of wartime cast production to compare with these images.

"Apples to apples" is the only truly accepted evaluative standard. You would also need, at the very least, examples of period French die-cast military insignia (if such things exist).

**Jeff V** · 03-03-2018, 11:53 AM

While no definite proof a cast pin is a gigantic red flag for me.

**chrisje110** · 03-03-2018, 01:54 PM

I have never casted pins on "accepted" wartime badges. Does anyone know of any ?

**upbeek** · 03-03-2018, 01:56 PM

Gentlemen
I just saw the excellent video!
Without doubt these so called French made badge s are indeed Bogus! The pin is just the end of the matter!

**Chet Sowersby** · 03-03-2018, 02:14 PM

Spent damn near half a day reading the entire thread and watching the video. I was a fence sitter for a long time on these. The cast pin is the nail in the coffin for me. Just another scam perpetrated upon collectors by the never ending supply of crooks in our hobby.

Chet

**Norm F** · 03-03-2018, 02:32 PM

I hear the arguments about the cast pin, and that could indeed be the kiss of death, but part of me still craves the last nail in the coffin, and there's always more to learn in the process.

Here are two "accepted" wartime injection-mold cast products of F. W. Assmann (Tom Yanacek's badges). It is presumed this cast production complete with cast-in hinge block and catch was cost-effective and allowable in wartime. In this case the pin was a simple round-wire affair.

The paramount question still to be answered by forensics is, what makes these good wartime castings and the "French-made" badges bad post-war castings? Does the post-war argument hinge (no pun intended) completely upon the cast main pin, in which case if they had happened to use simple, commonly-available round-wire pins we would still be stumped?

This is still worth exploring until a resolution can be reached.

Best regards,
---Norm

Attached Files

**Norm F** · 03-03-2018, 02:42 PM

One observation that does make me suspicious of the French-made castings, is that there appear to have been attempts to masquerade as die struck which were pointed out in Jo Rivett's videos:

1) on the U-Boat badge, the pseudo-shear lines on the edges that unfortunately then continue on up and over the obverse surface.

2) on the S-Boat badge, the partial duplication of the obverse design on the reverse die but in positive instead of negative.

No such inexplicable anomalies appear on the Assmann badges with their undisguised ejector pin markings.

Best regards,
---Norm

Attached Files

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