Well What Do you Think

[mrg]

Hi Guys here's is Terry Badge from an earlier thread, got a chance to inspect it under the loop, took some new photos, hopefully alittle better, and thought I would throw it back out to you guys. Hope you dont mind Terry. if you do I can easily withdraw the thread. What I can tell you about this award is at some time the wreath, u-boat, and wings have been painted green, the eagle red, and is coated is a very gunge like clear substance that is still very visible in parts today. The metal is the smoothest I have every felt. Just thought I would see what the general opinion is now, any changes Original or copy?

[mrg]

Reverse. If you look closely just below the flag this is the remains of the gunge like coating, also visible at either end of the U-boat cutout. As pointed out previously the hinge does sit in a sort of dell and is slightly bent to suit.

[mrg]

The eagle.

[mrg]

Another.

[mrg]

Hinge and pin tried various ways to get a better picture, but this was it.

[Terry OToole]

great job Gary , with the excellent pics and my new glasses i can see the green paint ! why would anyone paint it like that , must have been a kid would the gunge coating be vasiline?

[mrg]

The award Measures,

48mm in width,
wingspan 32-33mm
Height 36mm
Got no scales but first thing I noticed when I picked it up felt heavy.


The catch plate as mentioned is not really a catch plate and is of varing thickness, the thickest part being towards the U-boat cut outs, the thinnest which is paper like thin near the wreath.


Well thats about it guys. All the best

[mrg]

great job Gary , with the excellent pics and my new glasses i can see the green paint ! why would anyone paint it like that , must have been a kid would the gunge coating be vasiline?

Hi Terry no its not vasiline, more like an industrial like gel, quite a thick coating, in fact its keeping alot of gunge clinging too it.

[mrg]

Hi guys well just got it weighed by a mechanic up the street came in at 23 gr.All the best.

[Norm F]

Pretty interesting what people will do to badges!

From Torpedo Los, typical numbers for a K&Q would be:
width: 49 mm
height: 40.1 mm
weight 22.2 g
So Terry's badge being slightly smaller but slightly heavier as well makes one wonder about a cast copy doesn't it?

Alternatively, an original badge that over the years was painted red and green and then subjected to a brutal chemical and abrasive stripping process, leaving it in it's current condition with such lack of detail? And maybe "industrial gunge" added to try to keep down zinc pest and got caught in the crevices?
In which case the weight difference just represents the range.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Steve P]

Hi Guys here's is Terry Badge from an earlier thread, got a chance to inspect it under the loop, took some new photos, hopefully alittle better, and thought I would throw it back out to you guys. Hope you dont mind Terry. if you do I can easily withdraw the thread. What I can tell you about this award is at some time the wreath, u-boat, and wings have been painted green, the eagle red, and is coated is a very gunge like clear substance that is still very visible in parts today. The metal is the smoothest I have every felt. Just thought I would see what the general opinion is now, any changes Original or copy?

Amazing! What was going through their mind?

[mrg]

Hi guys, well unfortunately not as a big response as I had hope for, so I will just give my opinion. I am sorry to say Terry that my view on this one has not changed, it is definately not a K&Q, had looked at the possibility of it being from the unknown maker as it bore a very slight resemblance but there are too many things wrong with it in my opinion. I also believe that the metal is not zinc but a modern alloy with a lead base to it. Going over it with the loop I could find nothing to make me believe this was an original including the pin and hinge. I have to say though when I first recieved the award I was more surprised at the detail than I thought I would be. I still believe the wear has been done artifically maybe by some sort of buffer as it is quite suttle at times, and very smooth, and goes along way in hiding the fact it is a copy. I believe that this may have been done as a project then painted maybe given to a child, someone then saw the money value to it, stripped off the paint and put it on the market as an original, no evidence of this just me own thought process. All the best and thanks Terry for letting me have alook at it pity it had not turned out differently but again this is just my opinion. All the best.

[Martin W]

Gary,

thanks for the new set of images and great description.I was going to ask you what your thoughts were on the basemetal,but you have answered my question.
From what you have mentioned above and looking at the reverse hardware more closely and it does look somewhat crude,i think i am inclined to agree with you that this is probably a fake.

Thanks again,Martin.

[Terry OToole]

oh well! stil its been a fascinating thread , i ve really enjoyed it ,this piece was bought before i joined waf , i m fairly sure i bought it from international militaria auctions (i ve been racking my brain ) i ll put it on bazaar as a repro , again many thanks guys espeacially to Gary