U-Boot patch and sawfish??

[90th Light]

This was my example, note the difference in the manufacture.

From what I can see in this image, I do not like the back of this badge.

It is typically of what one sees on a modern made woven badges after May 45 esp West German examples.

I do not see the two-tone colors of a pre-May 45 badge where the yellow outer thread is spun over an inner cream thread core to pad it out and give shape.

I also do not like the tight joins where the threads come together on the reverse of the sword-fish. Again this is what one sees on badges made on post-war machines because they can produce a far tighter weave than war-time machines

Perhaps a clearer/ close up image may show more ???

Chris

[münster]

From what I can see in this image, I do not like the back of this badge.

It is typically of what one sees on a modern made woven badges after May 45 esp West German examples.

I do not see the two-tone colors of a pre-May 45 badge where the yellow outer thread is spun over an inner cream thread core to pad it out and give shape.

I also do not like the tight joins where the threads come together on the reverse of the sword-fish. Again this is what one sees on badges made on post-war machines because they can produce a far tighter weave than war-time machines

Perhaps a clearer/ close up image may show more ???

Chris

Hi 90th

The grouping is long gone. Also was a private pick up. I saved the pics for reference. Here was the entire group.

dion

[Ludwig]

Sorry, but I don´t believe in your badges. The cloth sawfish is handmade all right, but one can see that whoever mad it, had a real one (or a picture of a real one) in front of him, as it was made. Why make one if you already have one? No, IMO a fake.
The metal badge is impossible to say, but it looks very sloppy made and I do think, that when German soldiers made badges they were a little bit more ambitious. Why? I guess they put some pride in the badges they wore. Just a theory of mine, but still.

Münster´s Bewährungsabzeichen is an original one. That´s how they shall look. there were only one producer of the KdK cloth badges – as far as we know!

[Steve P]

Hi Ludwig, I want to support your "Theory" on the Pride of the German soldier, sailor and airman, as being a factor in the assessment of the authenticity of badges and items made or repaired for wear...The German military had an extremely proud tradition which is also evident in the culture and pride of German precision engineering, industry etc. today. It is my belief, therefore, that a poorly made or "sloppy" badge is a good indication of it being a reproduction/fake as the German fighting man wore his badges, quite justifiably, with great pride. IMHO he would have been disinclined to make or wear a second rate piece, and for that matter for his superiors to have accepted it as a part of the service uniform. Thanks for raising this, it is not 100% absolute but it is a good factor to take into account. Cheers, S

[90th Light]

A recent debate on the the very rare cloth version the the LW glider badge has shown just how prcisely the machine woven badges have been copied.

A badge as rare as these Swordfish types and commanding the prices they do has also been copied to the same standard in the machine woven examples. If one can not see any cream inner core thread and the join on the reverse of the Swordfish is a tight ridge which it is on Dion's (Munsters) example then it is a machine woven example made post war for German veterans and members of the German armed forces since 1957 who did not get an example during the war but are entitled to wear that award. They have also been made post war to sell to collectors.

As far as the hand-made examples go, these have been made for the German navy since Imperial times and were prefered by many Kriegsmarine personal over the cheaper machine woven examples.

The one which started this thread may be post war because it is hard to tell from a computer image but the fact remains that there were also hand-produced examples of the swordfish badge made before May-45 usually by cottage type industries.

To date these examples would appear to have been seriously over-looked by collectors because I know of no serious study of them.

One can in fact encounter hand-produced/ cottage industry examples of almost every type of Kriegsmarine insignia known but esp. breast eagles and trade/ branch of service badges,

Keep in mind that the badge which started this could equally be be an original of pre-May manufacture because there is some times quite a variety of styles in these hand-produced/ cottages types.

I have to be honest and say however that it is by no means the best example of such work I have seen,

Chris

[Ludwig]

As far as I know, there are examples of hand sewn and machiene sewn types of most Third Reich insignias. I dont think because my patch differs from a machiene sewn example rules it out as original.

So why do you post them here and ask at all???

[Eric JB]

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=384223

[clestuff]

interesting

The "cream" mentioned as backing thread on originals is what I was talking about when I said it seemed to have some kind of "backing" to puff it out. With a closer look it is a lower layer of cream color thread.