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    #1

    High Seas Fleet - Foerster & Barth?

    Gents,

    Also picked this one up today. It has many characteristics of the Foerster & Barth. The pin and catch look original. There is a top allignment mark and the semi cut outs look ok.

    Please help me and let me know what you think.

    Regards

    Steve
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    #2
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      #3
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        #4
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          #5
          IMO,this is a good original zinc badge.It certainly has the characteristics of a Foerster & Barth piece.
          However,it does not display the reverse hardware we usually associate with Foerster & Barth.
          Still a good badge.
          Here is one that i have with the "typical" F & B hardware.

          Regards,Martin.
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            #6
            Reverse,F & B.
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              #7
              a typically F&B HSF.........

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                #8
                Hi Guys,

                Steve suggested I update this discussion since his period HSF is listed on estand right now:

                http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=459723


                Since the time of this thread, the attribution of this HSF has changed from F&B to Steinhauer & Lück.

                Just as with the S&L minesweeper and Auxiliary Cruiser badges, the inverse taper pin on these HSF badges historically caused the mis-attribution to F&B, simply because F&B used a very similar pin.

                In the case of the S&L minesweeper, you can see here a few different setups on the same badge, one of which is the exact pin type used on the HSF. Notice these two S&L zinc minesweepers share the same characteristic circled flaw that carried onward into the S&L '57 version minesweeper which was based on the wartime tooling.

                In the second attachment you see the S&L zinc minesweeper compared with a similar one attached to the Lüdenscheid sample board that was sold by eMedals a couple of years ago, and which contained a variety of S&L and other Lüdenscheid products.

                Likewise, as Martin can tell you, the S&L Auxiliary Cruiser sometimes uses the same inverse-taper pin setup.
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                Last edited by John R.; 09-08-2010, 09:01 AM.

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                  #9
                  Likewise the S&L semi-hollow zinc HSF is seen with different setups, sometimes with the inverse-taper wide pin and other times with the needle pin. The catch is sometimes the round wire "question mark" and other times the classic S&L sheet metal catch.

                  Below you also see the HSF from the same Lüdenscheid sample board as the minesweeper, this time with the needle-pin like Steve's.
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                    #10
                    Finally, it's worth noting that although this badge was considerably modified to produce the '57 version, S&L still used the same internal trimming tool under the starboard gun as in the wartime version, creating a cutout shape which is unique to the S&L '57 and it's predecessor.

                    So there you have it - just like the minesweeper and Auxiliary Cruiser badges - the HSF is by S&L, not F&B.

                    Best regards,
                    ---Norm
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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Martin W View Post
                      IMO,this is a good original zinc badge.It certainly has the characteristics of a Foerster & Barth piece.
                      However,it does not display the reverse hardware we usually associate with Foerster & Barth.
                      Still a good badge.
                      Here is one that i have with the "typical" F & B hardware.

                      Regards,Martin.
                      Thanks for bringing this subject to light again Norm.

                      Well ,time has changed our opinion on these awards and i agree with you that they are most probably a product of St&L and not Foerster & Barth.

                      As mentioned, this also applies to the two piece Hilfskreuzer awards that were also once beleived to be a product of F&B,due to the inverse tapered pin.

                      Regards,Martin.

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                        #12
                        Thanks guys,

                        A really informative and detailed thread.

                        Regards

                        Steve

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                          #13
                          Here is my zinc S&L HSF in unworn condition but faded in usual manner.
                          Cheers,
                          Hubert
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