Auxiliary Cruiser Badge questions

[Ron Birch]

I have always liked these badges and am in the process of starting the "hunt", but I have some questions on it of course.

I have seen the badge on the forum gallery, and some from other sites that claim to be an unmarked Schwerin. The obvious difference to start is the hinge which the one I seen seems to be the reversve mount from the one on the gallery. Second is the pin itself, it is coke bottled but where it attaches to the hinge is different. And the catch is different also, actually the badges I have seen seems to resemble the one in Formans Guide to Theird Reich German Awards.

What bothers me about this if the maker was the same why the difference? Is anyone aware of some good faked badges that are floating around. And please post pictures if you have any of original or fakes............your help would be appreciated. Thanks

[Gordon Williamson]

The type illustrated in Forman's guide is not a Schwerin piece. It does at first glance look very similar but on closer inspection there are numerous small diffrerences in the die characteristics.
Alsdo bear in mind that quite often the photos in Forman's book marry up the obverse by one manufacturer and a reverse which is clearly not the same badge, which just adds to the confusion.

There were other manufacturers who were making early Kriegsmarine award badges in fire gilded Tombak apart from Schwerin, Steinhauer & Lück for one. Unfortunately I have never seen one of this type with a maker mark so I doubt if we will ever know for sure who made them, but S & L would have to be a possibility.

I wouldn't have any problems with the type you mention, but if it is specifically a Schwerin made piece you are after, it should match exactly the die characteristics of the original shown on this site. The fake Schwerins are good, but not exact enough to pass close comparison with a known original.

Gordon

[Ron Birch]

Thanks for the input Gordon, Bill has given me a couple of these to post for reference and I hope they turn out OK.

[Ron Birch]

Sorry for the screw up, this is the front of the badge.





The images I posted .......well lets just say I didn't do a very good job and will attempt to fix it to give the pictures better clarity. In the mean time Gordon and all should the hinge, catch and pin be the same on all of these (rivited ones) because the other badge seems to match the one on Formans book.

[Bob Hritz]

In all these years, I have never seen a Schwerin Berlin marked Auxillary Cruiser badge made of tombak. Every one I have seen was zinc with an aluminum colored globe. The nicest fire gilded brass ones, with nickle globes, that I have seen were all unmarked.

I would love to see an original tombak example marked Schwerin Berlin.

Bob Hritz

[George Stimson]

Cruiser marks

I've seen Auxiliary Cruiser badges marked by Schwerin and by Friedrich Orth. Has anybody ever seen any other makers' marks (or know of any)?

George

[Lorenzo Brown]

Hi George. I have an Auxiliary Cruiser badge in zinc by Rudolf Souval. Here's the link:
http://lbmilitaria.homestead.com/files/auxrs.jpg

[Bruce Simcox]

Tombak

Hi Bob,

There is a tombak 'Schwerin' on Detlev's site(under new items). Just thought that you might be interested. I wouldn't have thought much about it other than that you happened to bring it up. I too, really admire the looks of these Auxiliary Cruisers badges and will someday add one to my own collection.

--------------------

Regards, Bruce

[Ron Birch]

Well that seems to be part of the problem I have so far, the one on Detlev's site is different than the one on the Forum gallery and and Bill's badge posted above. Now the question is since all badges like the one on Detlev's site is attributed to "Schwerin" does that mean there are two different but minor "styles". Or is the assumption all wrong on these (this isn't the only badge Iv'e seen with this look that was attributed to Schwerin) and they are unmarked F.O. badges. If F.O. made riveted badges of course.

[Yuri D.]

Here is Roger Bender's HSF badge by Schwerin. Would this be considered of Tombak manufacture??

<img src=http://www.bender-publishing.com/display/hsf1.jpg>
<br>
<img src=http://www.bender-publishing.com/display/hsf2.jpg>

[Ron Birch]

That one looks like the one Bill has, and like I said he has another and here is Detlev's which has a different pin and hinge than the first two. There also seems to be a difference in the leafs from the back.

[Bob Hritz]

Yuri,

Roger's badge is zinc. The unmarked tombak badges are nice, but I have about a half dozen of them. I was wondering if anyone has seen a Schwerin Berlin MARKED badge in tombak.

Bob Hritz

[Seagullmc]

I am the proud owner of a mint marked tombak version from Detlev. I would be happy to show it off if, err, someone will post it for me.
Thanks,
Colin

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

The image Ron has posted of the unmarked AuxCr Badge is tombak but, IMO, is NOT and unmarked Schwerin, regardless of how some dealers present them. Detailed comparison between an example such as Ron has posted and that Yuri has posted indicates that they DEFINITELY did NOT come from the same dies, so unless you believe Schwerin produced 2 sets of dies for a fairly uncommon badge then Schwerin did not make this unmarked version. The fact that Schwerin did produce both marked tombak and zinc examples from the same die in my mind negates the need for them to have produced a second set of dies.

Yuri's badge is a marked zinc Schwerin, which typically has the catchplate and the 3-segment hinge on a thin baseplate. Images of genuine tombak marked Schwerin AuxCr Badges can be found on Jody Beltram's site and, from memory, in Detlev Niemann's catalogue. These are characterised by their fire-gilt finish, C catch (without baseplate) and standard early Schwerin laid down box hinge. The die charactersitics are the same as for Yuri's zinc badge. Personally, I have only seen a handful of genuine tombak Schwerin AuxCr Badges for sale in the last few years.

The most apparent difference between the unmarked badge Ron has posted and the marked one Yuri has posted is in the area (profile) formed between the flag, the top of the sail and the wreath, which is much squarer on the Schwerin badge compared to the unmarked version. There are also differences in detail on the obverse wreath and sail, which can only be attributed to different dies being used.

Who produced the unmarked tombak version pictured above? I have no idea but and friend and I speculate that maybe Rudolf Klein (RK) did as marked RK KM Minesweeper badges use a very similar hinge/pin/catch construction. There is no evidence for this though - RK and whoever did produce the unmarked AuxCr Bdage may simply have sourced the pin assembly components from the same third party.

Regards
Mike K

[Ron Birch]

Hello Mike,

Since it seemed that most of the dealers that have this type of unmarked badge linked it in some way to Schwerin it kind of lets say raised my eyebrow. I think they are different makers also, but who I don't know. We should have more pictures today and tonight for more comparisons so stick around.