Souval U-boat Badge R.S. L/58

[Tom Yanacek]

Thank you!

Thanks guys!

I really appreciate hearing everyone's viewpoint. It's good to see that some of the paranoia with regard to Souval badges has dissipated.

Best regards,
Tom

[George Stimson]

Here's an Auxiliary Cruiser badge by Souval with the "L/58" mark. The conclusion on this on here earlier was that it was post-war.

[George Stimson]

The reverse.

[George Stimson]

The maker mark.

[George Stimson]

A comparison of the hinge of this badge (right) with that of an "R.S."-marked version on the left. The variation between these hinges was one of the factors that led to the conclusion that the "L/58" was not wartime.

[90th Light]

A comparison of the hinge of this badge (right) with that of an "R.S."-marked version on the left. The variation between these hinges was one of the factors that led to the conclusion that the "L/58" was not wartime.

I have got an "RS" badge which is also marked "L/58" in the small incised box with the correct war-time hinge and hook. Use to think it was post-war but was told on this forum that it was war time but there were two possible reasons for the L/58;

1/ RS had to mark their badges at some stage during the war to sell through LDO outlets when initially they did not have to.

2/ RS had a stock pile of war-time made badges stashed away after the war and marked them L/58 when they sold them post-war. When the war time ones ran out in the 1960's-70's they then started making badges again from their molds & dies.

The difference between a war-time made one and a post war one is the hinge, the catch and the plating. Post-war ones are a lot brighter in quality of plating when compared to a war-time badge. Plus the reverse on the post-war ones is flat and smooth where as war-time often have a ridge to guide the positioning of the hinge & catch.

"RS" is an interesting study in Third Reich badges full of both myth and reality but there do appear to be genuine double marked war time examples along side post-war ones.

Interested in what others have seen, Chris

[Peter J.]

Chris, I don't believe it's that easy. If we assume the so called "Souval-catch" was used solely by Souval post-war, the two enclosed badges (LWPAB and Observer) are indeed from Souval. The LWPAB shares the same rectangle shaped hinge as the one on George's, as well as the L/58. The metal and catch are different though. To me both these badges are bad.

The hinge on the Observer has more rounded corners, similar to the presumed original Hilfskreuzer to the right. However, the hinge on the latter is 1mm wider than the Observer. Hence I believe we perhaps should focus more on measures rather than shape, in order to figure this out.

I do agree with you about the reverse, any badge without the guide for at least the hinge is not for my collection.

As for Tom's U-Boat, I can't see why it shouldn't be plausible that it's actually a war-time produced badge. After all, the Director of Souval, Herr Unlauf, aknowledged in 1967 they had found their old punch and used it again on their new products.

cheers
Peter

cheers
Peter

[Peter J.]

Hinges

[Tom Yanacek]

George, Chris, & Peter,

Thanks guys, for the additional comments and photo comparisons. This has really turned into a great thread, with a lot of good information and viewpoints.

Best regards,
Tom

[90th Light]

Peter, the catch that you show on both badges is post war in my opinion. War-time "RS" types are quite different and are two piece in construction and not one piece like those ones.

plus I have always considered the hinge with slightly rounded edges to be the war time ones. The 90 degree square cornered ones are post-war.

Just to add to the confusion not only was "RS" selling stashed war-time production badges post war , they also used up all their stock pile of war time parts so one could come across a post-war badge with a war time hinge or a war-time badge with a post war catch etc. This said however, all the post war badges with one piece catch examples that I have ever seen so far have always been on post war badges.

As you say "RS" is just not that simple and one has to judge each example on its own merits plus consider how much you are paying for it.

IMO however you can get war time produced badges marked both "RS" & "L/58". What I can not tell you is when the "L/58" was applied and why

Interesting thread & question, Chris

[Peter J.]

Chris, I suppose I was vague about the "Souval"-catch, as you pretty much repeated what I said . The one-piece folded catch is of course post-war (at least we all believe so).

cheersPeter

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello guys,

Here are two other Souval Kriegsmarine badges that I have owned for a long time. I have never had any issues with either and consider them to be wartime originals. All opinions welcome.

Best regards,
Tom

PS: How do you guys feel about the Souval badges that have the wide pin variation? I believe that there are original wartime Souval badges that have wide pins, but I would like to hear other opinions about this. I am currently comtemplating the purcahse of a Souval Heer Flak Badge having the wide pin.

[Tom Yanacek]

badge reverses:

[Tom Yanacek]

R.S. logo Auxiliary Cruiser:

[Tom Yanacek]

R.S. logo S-boat: