KM Small Battle Units Badge

[ERIC S.]

Hi Guys,
I am beginning to see some Bronze ( 5th class ), Silver ( 6th class ), and Gold ( 7th class ) metal clasps maker marked " CE JUNCKER BERLIN SW surfacing up here in the northeast. My understanding was that the metal clasps were rarely issued, if at all. Just the cloth Qualification Swordfish and classes 1 through 4 were routinely issued. Has anyone seen any of the 5th, 6th, or 7th class worn in photographs? Does anyone have a soldbuch with one of these higher classes entered? Thoughts anyone?
I am sure these new ones are repros - you don't see any at all then all of a sudden 6 in a matter of a month! They seem to be of good quality - wide pin, catch fixed directly to the reverse, clean hallmark strike, etc.
ERIC

[W. C. Stump]

BEWARE!!!

The 1957 re-issue badges have been restamped with L/11. L/12 and other Third Reich makers for some time now. I have never seen an origianal. Gordon Williamson has done some serious research on these badges and has seen few if any WWII produced badges.

[rhudspith]

I would avoid any of these metal badges, As far as I know the only one that had some sort of provenance was sold by Detlev Niemann some time ago and was provenanced to Proff Doehle as a prototype. Again from memory the difference between this and the copies was that the fins of the fish were plain and did not have lines as per the copies.

Rob

[Chris Boonzaier]

I would also be very wary of saying the cloth ones were "routinely" issued.
As far as Embroidery goes, they are a very, very, very, very, very (was that enough ;-) ) simple badge to make.
A guy I met at the local Navy association about 4-5 years ago who was in one of the units and had one of the bullion badges which was a beauty... but bought long after the war. I bet (if he died in the meantime...) that the badge is on the market as origianls today, bought from his widow or son.
I would not touch any of them with a barge pole. "Super quality and smells old" just would not turn my handle on any of these.

[Maurice]

They are rare indeed. I spoke with a Linsefahrer last week, he told me that even sometimes the badge which was awarded had to be given back, so it could be supplied to another soldier. What rested was a notice in the Soldbuch/Wehrpass, as the Urkunde was also very rare...

Best regards,

Maurice

[Gordon Williamson]

This is the only genuine example of a metal Kleinkampfmittelverband Clasp I know of in existence. Note that the fins to the sawfish are plain, not ribbed like the 1957 version, which is basically what these maker marked pieces tend to be-reworked 57 pieces.



Photo Copyright Detlev Niemann
This piece had provenance right back to its original owner. Ottfried Neubecker, the man who designed it, so was presumably a test sample.

Detlev also had a beautiful Soldbuch in excellent condition, with the cloth patch entered, and with the original cloth patch, obtained direct from the former K-Man.

In the U-Boat Archiv is a tunic donated by a K-Man who served in the Bundesmarine. On the ribbon bar is the miniature of the metal clasp, signifying that some were earned on paper at least, even if never actually received. I can't imagine the Bundesmarine allowing an officer to wear medal ribbons for awards he was not entitled to!

Gordon

[ERIC S.]

Hello All,
Thanks very much to everyone who posted a reply! You just confirmed my suspicion.
ERIC

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi Gordon,
It may be that the device on the ribbon bar was for a cloth awards.

Awards like the Afrika, Kreta cufftittels are represented as a metal device on a ribbon bar, as is the panzer destruction strip.

It could very well be that the bundeswehr metal ribbon device was made to cover all grades including the cloth ones, I would not take it as proof ofaward of a metal badge unless therewas more to back it up.

[Gordon Williamson]

Chris,

You may well be right. I am going over to the Archiv again next month so will check it out. Interesting though. There were so many grades, how would they respresent them on medal bars when the miniature device is only in three colours ?
Certainly worth checking into and I'll post the outcome.

Gordon