U-Boat badges from Frank & Reif.All copys?

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Hello Guys,

I don´t want to sound dumm but I´ve been reading in a lot of publications that all U-Boat badges from Frank & Reif are copies.How do we know this?
Now Prosper if you´r reading this,i´m not trying in the face of all odds to turn a copy into a real badge.
I´ve had this badge for a good 20years,its super quality,made from cannonshell type brass (not this staybrite gilding metal) it´s die cast with hand filed cannon and swaz,on the reverse is an EK typ hinge with `coke bottle` pin and compared to ones from other makers it looks great.
Now i know that there are PAB copys of F&R badges and you can tell these cos`they are flat and not dished,also the GAB copys you can tell cos`the room between grenade/bayonet and eagle are removed and on the originals not.
But what differance is there with the U-Boat badges,or did someone find documentation where it says F&R did not make these.
In the German publication IMM .in a comparision of makers. I´ve even seen this badge shown as original.
So come on guys tell me why cos´I´d hate to deface this (i do that with copys) and then find out in five years that it´s now accepted as original.
Thanks very much,sorry for the lack of pictures.

[Gordon Williamson]

These started appearing in the late 70s early 80s, reputedly from Johannes Floch of Austria.
Originals early U-Boat Badges were not made from the Brass material used in these but from Tombak, a bronze like alloy, which if polished will look brassy. Originals were also fire-gilded.
I have yet to see a Frank & Reif with traces of fire -gilding though I am told that some dealers are now sending faked brass pieces to India where fire-gilding is still done ( its been banned in Europe for health reasons for many years).

I personally don't believe any of these Frank & Reif Badges are genuine. The Badges was also shown in the French "Militaria" magazine as original, but a retraction and apology was printed in a later edition stating that it was fake.

I can't think of any Frank & Reif badges which are earlky, in high quality materials, every one I have seen has been in zinc. I certainly don't think they were making high quality U-Boat badges in 1939/40.

It is of course very dificult to prove that something never existed, but the fact that Dealers were peddling these around the shows by the boxload with discounts for a dozen or more bought, that E-Bay and E-Pier have been awash with them, would have to make them a very risky proposition.
They are very good copies and seem to have been modelled on the Schwerin badge as the die characteristics are almost identical.
Problem is that there is no doubt that the market is awash with F&R fakes. If you have one that looks exactly like all the fakes, how are you ever going to persuade anyone you have a genuine piece?
There may be no documented evidence that F&R didn't make them during the war, (I doubt if there is a central record of who didn't make particular badges) but there is no evidence as far as I am aware that they did .
Good space fillers, but very few collectors will now take them seriously.

Gordon

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Thanks very much Gordon.It looks like i´ve got another piece fot the hammer and tongs treatment.Pity about the 350DM though. moremad

[ERIC S.]

OUCH!

[R D Adams]

Think we have all "been there and done that" at some point in our collecting career.

Join the club!!!!

Robert
moremad